Thread: Abortion?
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dr2005 Offline
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Re: Abortion? - April 8th 2012, 05:55 PM

What I would give for this subject to be stickied and black-listed so we don't have to go through this every few months or so. We really have done this topic to death and a lot of this is just turning over old ground again - just as it was the last few times. As such, I'm going to repeat what I said last time, which is that the labels of "pro-choice" and "pro-life" are in themselves illogical straw men - no one aside from the most dedicated troll is going to set themselves up as being "anti-choice" or "anti-life" which are the true opposites to both these positions. The sooner we throw these labels in the garbage, where they belong, the happier we'll all be I reckon. Or at the very least, we'll have got the debate back onto the actual topic of "abortion, yay or nay?"

Incidentally, there is a fairly specific definition of a living organism in biology, and by that definition life begins at fertilisation when cell division via mitosis commences. Hence, an embryo is alive from a scientific perspective and claims that it is not are with respect bogus. Whether it is a person or not is the true nub of the debate, and that is an ethical/legal problem rather than a medical one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigmole View Post
So incredibly and unbelievably pro-choice. As pro-choice as a person can be. And I mean no offense because I do not know you, but I am not a fan of the pro-life stance at all. I find it incredibly self centered to think that every woman should line by your own personal, not backed up with facts, beliefs.
There's a slight flaw in this logic, which hopefully I can illustrate below:

You believe abortion should be a universally available right to all pregnant women. Fine - that's your prerogative. Myself and others do not agree with that position - that is our prerogative. However, in order for your position to be implemented, the state has to make provision for - and in a lot of cases fund - provision of abortion services, via taxpayer money. Even if a large percentage of the population does not agree with abortion, therefore, you are in effect demanding they foot the cost of implementing your beliefs. On a more personal level, as a taxpayer I am funding the provision of abortion services even though in a number of instances I do not agree with them. Where, therefore, is my choice? How is that not imposition of your beliefs upon others? Your belief that abortion should be a universal right is based on no greater level of empirical fact than mine, yet my objection is trampled over by default. That sounds less like pro-choice and more like pro-my-point-of-view, if you take choice in the strictest sense of the word.

I don't intend this to sound like a personal attack, I add in haste - it's more that the logic for me doesn't work. Both pro-choice and pro-life positions entail, in one way or another, the imposition of their beliefs upon wider society in one form or another.


"The greatest glory in living lies not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall." - Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

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Quote:
Originally Posted by OMFG!You'reActuallySmart! View Post
If you're referring to dr2005's response, it's not complex, however, he has a way with words .
RIP Nick

Last edited by dr2005; April 8th 2012 at 06:12 PM. Reason: Spotted something I'd missed first time around