[Marguerite]

Originally Posted by TigerTank77

...that's the point you've been making the entire time. That it disadvantages you because you're not white.

Originally Posted by TigerTank77

My problem is that by using race, we are automatically assuming people are going to have an issue because of the color of their skin. If someone is born into the situation you described above, their race shouldn't have anything to do with it. They should get the same amount of help regardless. It should not matter if said person is black or white

No, my point has been that statistically, if you're not white you're at more of a disadvantage than a white person, however, obviously it will change on a case to case basis.

Say 8% of people from X race end up going to college, while 48% of Y race do. Obviously that is a dramatic difference which needs to be adressed, but to be adressed it doesn't mean that everyone from X race has to be disadvantaged.

I come from a very disadvantaged area, single mother, very low income household, poorly achieving public school etc etc and yet, applying to university has been very easy for me. In fact I think it's probably a lot harder sometimes for people from middle class homes because they won't get 80% (or so) of the benefits I'm entitled too. That doesn't mean that finacial considerations for admission or scholarships should be scrapped and everything should be judged on a case by case basis. These things kind of need to be blanket rules because colleges who get, say, 50,000 applicants a year can't go through every single person and assess them on their disadvantage (which, yes, would be ideal and a lot fairer). You just need to pin point areas which would often mean that it was harder for that individual than the average joe to get into college.

Some of those things include remoteness, disabilities, and yes, race (occasionally, not every single non-white person. obviously you need to examine the statistics to see which).

These things may not actually hinder your attendance to university. Maybe you live in a remote area where the closest university is 4 hours away... but you come from an extremely rich home and travelling, accomodation etc is no issue. The point is that on average being from a remote area WILL hinder your ability to attend university, so those considerations have to be applied across the board.

Originally Posted by TigerTank77

Exactly, which is why race needs to be taken out of it, and financial situation needs to be stressed so much more.

You can stress finacial background more without taking race out of the game.

Originally Posted by TigerTank77

But by your definition, their parents wold have nothing to do with it, it would depend entirely upon their skin color.

No. That's not at all what I think. Skin colour doesn't determine if you will be disadvantaged. But unfortunately the statistics demonstrate that if you are not white you are more likely to be poor and less likely to attend university. Those statistics don't mean that because you're X race you will be disadvantaged or that the disadvantaged stems from being X race. It just means that overall, statistically, X race is disadvantaged for a variety of reasons including lack of education, income, bad health/health care etc. THOSE are the problems, but if they all happen to be affecting one race dramatically worse than another, well obviously it becomes a race/cultural issue.

If we were to improve those factors, such as by encouraging kids to stay in school, providing better government housing, helping people get into the workforce etc etc these problems would go away. Race is not the root of the problem, it is just the common factor. Why that is, is a totally different issue which I am not qualified to answer.

Originally Posted by TigerTank77

Do you see the point I'm trying to make here? To each according to his individual need, not color.

Yes I see what you're saying. I've argued about this a lot with people who are just racist idiots. I obviously don't think that of you, or that you're ignorant. But I don't agree with you because I don't think that adressing the issue of disadvantage in the area of race and then applying policies which help better them are discriminatory or damages the idea of an egalitarian society.