[OMFG!You'reActuallySmart!]

Originally Posted by mewithYou

But even if we completely ignore that. Not all plants need light to grow.

Then ignore those that don't need the sunlight.

Originally Posted by mewithYou

In regards to my "God can do anything" response, this wasn't an argument. It's just what I hold, and it's not necessarily circular or weak. It'd be like wondering how a smartphone was made. We don't just assume some guy randomly made a smartphone without any prior knowledge. He needed to know the mechanics of a computer and how to make them compact enough to get it phone-sized. But when you're dealing with someone who is omniscient, it wouldn't really be that difficult. I mean, how did Christ raise form the dead? The best example we are given in that what we sow does not come to life unless it dies. It can't necessarily be explained naturally (unless we assume He never died at all), so it must be because of God. Certainly we have people who "die" and wake back up. But not the way Christ was crucified, beaten, etc. It would be rare for someone to survive after the 29 lashes from a Roman guard, much less being crucified, and stabbed through the ribs. I'm not saying it's impossible, but the likelihood? I mean reason itself tells us that's not likely.

This is what I'm talking about. Yes it would be rare for someone to survive such physical torment however, your explanation boiled down to "it must be because of God". Eventually, you can look at so many complex and unlikely things, and simply keep on saying "it must be because of God" without any further thinking or without trying to describe it in more detail. It's an umbrella term that in a way, covers everything yet it covers nothing in the sense it allows unrelated things to have the same explanation. For example, you can say god made the leg of a horse as it is now and use that same explanation to account for the near-by boulder, tree, cloud and microscope. Everything gets the same explanation yet common sense tells you they're unrelated. You can use more thinking beyond common sense to explain why and how they're different.

Originally Posted by 01love

Oh, a UT student! Haha nice to meet you, I grew up in Toronto (: Currently, I'm in my 2nd year at McGill University.

Very interesting, my father got his Master's there and did some teaching there.

Originally Posted by 01love

Yes, exactly that. I believe the world is too complex and too exact to have been a complete accident. The chemical balance in our body, in the environment, in space, everything! - it is so delicate, even a single mistake could've tipped something out of sync and out of control. But that didn't happen, we're all here typing away at TH~ I don't think this universal balance was created by a coincidence, because the balance is still maintained. Unplanned incidents can't be so perfect, so lasting - this is my belief (:

That's fair enough, it explains how everything is all lined up, however, what about times when something goes askew, such as someone is born with a genetic disorder where they may not live to see their 8th birthday while living in immense pain, slowly withering away? Obviously something went wrong, so if god ensures everything is in perfect balance for the world, why would he let such imbalances occur? This is excluding the times when a mother was doing drugs, exposed to toxins, suffered trauma during pregnancy, etc... . Additionally, if everything was in such order, why do people often encounter mental and physiological impairments as they age?

Originally Posted by 01love

I mean indirectly through evolution. I am taking many many genetic courses as a part of my program in school, so I'd probably have an extremely conflicting time if I didn't believe in biological genetics lol Frankly, with all the scientific advancements and continued research in evolutionary genetics, I think it would be naive to argue against biological evolution. I think God just put together the universe, planned out for a little planet called Earth to develop from space dust, planned for small organisms called Homo sapiens to eventually evolve from pre-existing organisms. But I don't think God cares about us the way most Christians say so. I don't think He cares that some people go to church and others don't.

Originally Posted by mewithYou

In regards to the chance argument (and I'm a Christian), it doesn't work. Yes, the liklihood of us existing by "chance" is rare, but if God created us, He would have to be equally as rare as Hos creation to be that intelligent to create it all. Not only that, if we assume that big bangs happen elsewhere, and are not limited to our universe, then the probability of us existing is not that rare at all. Simply, we're just one of the lucky ones who won the lotto, whilst there are other "lucky" universes elsewhere.

LOL, now you're getting circular by saying "he would have to be equally as rare as Hos creation to be that intelligent to create it all". It's rare god would've "made" himself that smart? that's getting silly, you might as well say "it would've been so rare for god to want specific names to be used in referring to him". Come on, that's picking at straws hoping something works but nothing works with that silliness.

Given that you're focusing on chance for that, I'm not understand why you say you don't agree with the chance argument. When you mention the big bang happening in other areas, you say it's less rare for us to have been made, which does show you don't agree with the chance argument. I think I must be missing something or not understand part of the post mentioned in the above paragraph.