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Originally Posted by Diya
What are the recollections of both parties involved? Is the part where the sex was fully consensual clear in both minds? Do both parties feel that it was mutual and although drugs were involved they both knew what they were doing?
Or is there a level of uncertainty on either side?
I don't think morally it can be classed as rape but perhaps legally there are some shades of grey.
I'd ask both parties to sit down and have an open discussion about how they both feel. Clarify events and make sure that both are comfortable with the situation as it stands.
Oh and don't do drugs people because THIS is what happens.
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This incident happened a year and a half ago. So the memory is a bit hazy. Partner A remembers it simply as "I asked after she had a couple brownies with her friends/roomates and she seemed okay"..."I would never have done it if I thought she was way out of it, to be honest I have no experience with drugs to even know how many brownies one would need to eat to be that way out of it..." I understand his side of the story...he was ignorant he didn't purposely tell her to do it, in fact he was against her doing eating the brownies in the first place.
To put the relationship between them into context. They were sexually active partners for a year before the incident. So he didn't purposely drug her to take advantage of her.
Her side of the story is a little different. From what she said when they were actually having intercourse... she had attempted to say stop. But she was I guess high to the point that she couldn't? I've never taken my drugs myself so I'm not sure how one would feel under the influence... After the incident she says that Partner A said something along the lines of "what just happened? Did I just...?"
The problem is Partner A doesn't recall saying any of those things. And he has explained to me on many occasions that when they are having sexual intercourse and Partner B asked him to stop (because it hurt or for whatever reasons) he would comply sober or not.
The year that followed (to this present day) he still doesn't remember saying that last sentence. Or even considered as it being rape. He feels that if he consciously and knowingly took advantage of her because he knew how high she was, then he would accept what he did. But he's really ignorant when it comes to drugs so I agree with what the first reply suggested that maybe he should of inquired more about her "mental state" before engaging in anything along those lines.
I guess he felt it was similar to being under the influence of alcohol, at least for me when I'm "tipsy" I still acknowledge the things I say and I mean what I say every time. But I guess drugs even in small doses can still make a person lose consciousness?
I don't know. But thanks for the suggestions. I've suggested to them that they talk about it. But it's difficult because Partner B is determined to classify the incident as rape. Not because she was to make it a legal problem, but I guess she feels that this is what she needs to do to "get over" the incident? We looked it up together but honestly I can't choose sides as both are my friends. And Partner A feels like there's no defence for him. Whether he acknowledged that she was out of it or not.
There is definitely a lot of grey area. And I agree they need to come together to talk about it. When Partner A spoke to me about how she first approached him about the incident being rape (this was a year later). He was shocked beyond belief that she was taking it to that level. Mainly because when he thought back to that incident he just thought of it as "we had intercourse when you were high"
He's not a arsehole though, he just never thought of the incident as being that way...especially since it was only until a year later that she told him that she was trying to say "no". She did inquire about the incident probably about half a year after the incident first occurred but it was simply "what happened" "I asked you and you said it was okay"... and that was pretty much it. I guess it's something they should of talked to each other about earlier...But I guess it makes sense that after a traumatic event that you would need time to try to patch memories together? It's just a year later is a long time so it's hard to tell what was actually truly said, or how each other felt during the actual incident. Partner A has a very vague memory of how it was, and I'm sure Partner B has a vague memory of how it went as well...
But yeah, it's just hard to be supportive of both sides of the situation. Partner A is a good guy, and would never do anything to purposely hurt someone like that, especially someone he cares about. But Partner B is the "victim" in a sense and this is something she has kept inside away from Partner A for a long time. And I suppose she feels that she needs to say "okay this is how I feel it happened..." so that she can get over the incident. So definitely hard to distinguish a category like this...
But thank you for your inputs...