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Originally Posted by If You Only Knew
Atheism is a lack of religion, or belief?
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Actually, no, its not, its the lack of belief in a god or gods. By definition. You do get atheistic relgions... A Buddahist technically could consider themself an atheist whilst following that 'religion'. Though atheist is commonly used by those who have no religion-type thing/spirituality. But by definition A-theist, like a-sexual (sorry, it was the only example on the top of my head, not linking the actual concepts) is about the theist (God believer, not member of religion). Not all theists have a religion.
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Originally Posted by !!!YOU'RE$NUCKING$FUTZ!!!
There is no set of beliefs for atheism, it's simply the belief in no god. Plain and simple. Many do adhere to science but not all as it's not a requirement for the definition to be met. Some atheists adhere to a philosophy for their life but no divine being. Once again, a specific philosophy unique to others isn't required.
Thus, if atheism is a religion, then the definition of religion that is being used is not the traditional one, it's a different, generally unspecified one. If atheists fall under the unspecified definition of religion, then agnostics do also because they do not have a set of beliefs, they're more in the middle. However, like atheism they have only one main belief and if atheism is deemed a religion for that very reason, then agnosticism must also be. If agnosticism is not deemed a religion under this unusual definition of religion, then atheism must not be.
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Just to put a spin on this.... atheism is like an umbrella term, like theism, ad underneth it fall quite large sects/dominations. Like the way they explain the universe, how they make their moral codes, how they should live their life. These are all things religion covers. And often, these rules are part of your ideological peer group. As in, a certain type of atheist will associate more with their own type, like with religion. For example you get scientific atheists, you get down right crazy (e.g. stuff about aliens making the world) atheistist, and so on. It'd be absurd admittedly to claim atheism is all one big consistant religion... But a religious denifition could probably be place on it in some way.
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Originally Posted by Xujhan
I think it's safe to say though that most atheists adopt a scientific view on the universe.
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You'd hope so, but even if a lot of them think they do, there's a good chance they still don't really get science and therefore arent really truely scietific at all?
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Religion is an attempt to explain the universe
Science is an attempt to understand the universe
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For my last essay I read a lot of interesting stuff about reductionism and scientific objectivity. Don't get me wrong, they weren't religious, and they also weren't saying these were bad things. However it highlighted that the universe cannot be fully explained by simple objective study. As it breaks down everything into isolated parts, when its not. This is completely off topic, and I'll make a clearer thread about that. I just wanted to go off on one
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If the difference between the two isn't clear; science deals only with what we can find physical evidence for, and molds itself to fit new evidence. It's a "bottom up" approach, where any religion is "top down;" starting with whatever explanation they have and trying to fit new understanding into the same theory. To illustrate the difference, a question and the usual answers I hear.
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Science actually ideas to very rigid codes, and beliefs. Although theoretical findings may change, there is a set belief of how science 'should' be approached. Science adheres to a man-made doctrine, and these effect a person;s views of life, and explanations, etc. So there are some similarities.
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"What would it take to change your beliefs?"
Athiest: Evidence; something to indicate that a given religion is more likely to be correct than any other theory we have.
Theist: Proof of the non-existesnce of god, if anything at all.
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I don't think thats quite right, particularly among intelligent theists (yeah they exist). The approach is probably more linked with age and educational status then simply school of thought.
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Originally Posted by LittleFish
The way I see it, religion is more of an organized system of beliefs and philosophical principles, as opposed to a belief, which is simply an idea. Sounds weird, but let's compare atheists to modern Satanists: Satanists don't believe there is a God or an afterlife, and that individuals should treat themselves as their own God. They have a set of nine statements and eleven rules that they follow. They all mostly agree with and act upon the same principles, in other words. Atheists believe that there is no God and no afterlife too, but that doesn't necessarily make it a religion. Not all atheists follow the same exact beliefs. Some atheists go by one scientific theory, some go by another. Sharing a system of beliefs and sharing a few beliefs are not the same thing.
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What religions do you know, like actual religions that all followers share the exact same belief? Just out of curiousity?
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Originally Posted by Lizzie
Atheists believe there is no God. They believe that they is no afterlife, and the only life they have is this one on earth. That there is no outside power or force affecting our daily lives and the outcomes of those lives.
That is a belief system. Just because it is a negative one, in the sense that they don’t believe things exist, does not make it not a belief system. You can’t know that those beliefs are the truth, you just believe them to be.
And because there are a large amounts of people that agree with these belief systems, and live their daily lives with these belief systems in mind, it affects them. They are uniformed, they believe the same thing. In my mind it is considered a religion.
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I think the problem with the negative aspect, is, if you believe there is no God, thats the default of the world, thats not so much a belief, as just a way of life. There are issues with this anyway, but it may be better pharsing it positively, like 'atheist belief this is the world, the one shot at life, get born, live and die'. This is a philosphy of the world, and in esscense is a belief, but one that doesn't rely on the mentionning of a God.
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Originally Posted by Xujhan
By your definition Lizzie, it is true that atheism is a religion. But that is a much more liberal definition of religion than most people will use, so the argument isn't other whether atheism is a religion, it's over your definition of religion. Hypothetically, if you make a definition loose enough you can say that almost anything is almost anything else. For example: if hockey is a game played on ice with sticks, than both curling and lacrosse are also hockey. See the problem?
So: it is true that atheism is a particular stance adopted by people concerning the nature of the universe and existence. And it is true that most atheists feel that it is reasonably likely that they are correct, at least as regards the nonexistence of god. But if that's enough to call something a religion, then agnosticism and deism are also religions. In fact, under that definition the only way to not be religious is to not think about the matter entirely.
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I dont think I've been that clear in this post, so I'll draw it together. Although atheism itself is not a religion, just like theism and deism arent, sub-sects have religion (even organised) type qualities. Now where you draw the line is the question, but there are undeniable parralels. Its more about specific groups then the overall term.