Noctis, you are quite an interesting person. As I read through what you write; you constantly turn the table onto blaming me. I support evidence for what I believe and you rebuke it with another question, or another claim. I have compiled a general outline of the video, for anyone interested, you can
PM me. I will respond to a few of these replies because as I can see, it does not matter what claims I make, what evidence I provide, how I quote it, whom I quote, or even share what I believe. The fact of the matter is you resist God. Just like the Bible says you would. I have provided information, and you reject it. The thing that is interesting about this argument, is that Science cannot prove the existence of God, and it cannot disprove the existence of God.
See the interesting thing about what you believe is that you believe everything was just there. That matter came from no where, and you cannot explain how this matter got there, or why these events happen. Yet the Bible written thousands of years ago, provides all the answers for which science can't, and people still reject it. Truly fascinates me. As I read these arguments it is as if you are trying to reinforce for yourself that God is non-existent, and not providing even logical responses to the information provided. Instead you argue that I am an idiot, or you use my arguments against myself, because you simply cannot answer them, and I provide the answers based off the Bible which is what I believe, and you say that it is wrong for me to quote the Bible. So I give you a scientist, studied in the field and converted to religion, and supposedly makes a mockery of science, when in reality it is science that has made a mockery out of itself.
Putting aside the arguments of the age of the earth, or the arguments of God being evil, and numerous other arguments amongst this thread, something that I have failed to be answered on your end is:
Prove that science can disprove God. You can't because if you could, I would not have my Salvation, I would not have my faith, and in all said, if you could prove God doesn't exist, this discussion would not be going on right now. You make it seem like I am an idiot for believing a book, that provides all the answers science cannot prove, or even answer to a slightest degree. I have provided arguments of why science points to a Creator, whether being God or not, and you simply rebuke them with no evidence that proves there is no Creator. Instead you say rebuke my comments, by calling me and idiot for believing in a divine being, instead of some ball that absorb dust and blew up, and created everything. Instead of me believing that I came from NOTHING. Instead of believing that one day, all of mankind was a blob that evolved into species, and turned into a human? Sorry, I prefer my book that provides answers to all the questions science can't answer. I prefer my book that tells of the future. I prefer my book that speaks of current events. I prefer my book that gives me hope in Christ. Not a book that tells me I came from nothing, that I am meaningless, that I have no hope, that I am my own author of right and wrong, that doesn't provide answers to everything. Call me insane for believing my book over your book.
I love how you tell me not to shove answers down your throat, which I didn't but you have been doing this to me this entire argument, to be quite honest... just re-read all of your posts. By your post, you concluded that we do not know as much as I suggested. By concluding this you simply concluded on TOP of this, that there is an EVEN GREATER chance that God may exist. And made it even more IRRATIONAL to believe that there is no God, because there is so much more to consider on the fact that we know much less then I stated we knew. And again, no offense, but argument here proves an absolute flaw. You are saying here that even though we do not know
"99.999999999999999999999999999999% of 'everything'" that it effects no ones belief in God. Is that a joke? This whole argument is based on proving if God exists or not. If we KNEW there was NO GOD then we would not be having this discussion because people would not be curious if there was a god. With out being curious if there is a god, there would be no religion. If there was no religion no one would believe in God. So therefore the "99.999999999999999999999999999999%" that we don't know has raised questions in peoples mind's if there truly is a God, and because they have questioned if there is a God, many people have come to faith in God, therefore many peoples beliefs have been affected by this number. Please, if you do not question God or the existence of God, then why are you so determined to argue with me? Are you not satisfied that you are the ultimate determiner of your life? I am happy with my belief in God, and you are happy with your belief in no god, right? Well then why are you so determined to move my belief? If there is no God in the end, then this discussion is redundant. There is no point. In fact, if there is no God in the end our lives our pointless because 80 years on this earth is absolutely nothing, and we will all die, to remember nothing, and we will be forgotten. What a sad end, what is the point of life then? Have fun? Well go have fun, just remember eternity is a lot longer than 80 years, and wherever we go or don't go when we die, is going to be a very long time that we are there, or not there in your case because we just rot away and die, right?
Oh wow, this is my favorite argument, and misinterpretation of the Bible, or Christian faith that you have included, yet. Since when do Christian's blame Satan for sin? Have you not read Genesis 3 yet? You tell me to know about what I preach, well the same goes for what you preach against, you need to understand both sides to provide a legitimate argument. Read Genesis 3, the whole reason we are separated from God is because man LIED to God, instead of asking for His forgiveness. We LIED. If we had ate of the tree, and ask for God's forgiveness instead of lying and trying to hide the sin, we would not be in the mess we are in today. Any
TRUE Christian faith based religion (not Catholicism, Judaism, Mormanism etc.) teaches that WE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR OUR SINS, NOT SATAN OR GOD. If Satan was responsible for us sinning, then only Satan would be in Hell, because the rest of us would be perfect. In fact read these verse's right here:
James 1:13-18 (New American Standard Bible)
13Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone.
14But each one is tempted when
he is carried away and enticed by his own lust.
15Then when lust has conceived,
it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.
16Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren.
17Every good thing given and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shifting shadow.
18In the exercise of His will He brought us forth by the word of truth, so that we would be a kind of first fruits among His creatures.
You know I find your illustration of wiping the world out would solve all evil, quite hilarious. This is why we call God loving. Because He does not do this. Instead we are living in a time of grace. And just so you know, God does do this. Read Revelation, and the events in Revelation, are happening right now, we are leading up to the end times. In fact Baghdad in Revelation and prophesied in Isaiah, Baghdad in the end times will be the control point of the world, before Christ returns. If you read about the Muslim faith, they are waiting for a new "Messiah" to proclaim himself, which in Revelation is the anti-Christ, when you compare the scriptures side by side you can see that the Muslim faith has the Christian faith all backwards. Anyways this is besides the point, I just think it's funny how before you were saying generally people are good people. Yet in this one you say killing everyone would solve everything, yet I believe that Hitler was against Christianity much like you. Yet he did use quotes saying that he was doing the "work of the Almighty" etc, etc. But the Jew's are God's chosen people, so who really is the Almighty he is referring to? However, many quotes show he is an atheist, in fact check out one of my favorite Hitler quotes:
"Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things."
Kind of interesting. Sounds to me like if you believe in evolution, that you have the right to do whatever it is you please, in a sense if you disagree with this, you are saying that morals are defined some where? Who defines morals? You might say the government defines morals, yet Hitler was government, therefore Hitler defined morals, therefore it is concluded that ALL people would agree with what Hitler was doing. Yes, he did brainwash many people, but many people disagreed with him, because of what? Because of MORALS. Now where did these morals come from? I believe God. Romans 7:7 shows the ten commandments help guide our morals in Exodus 20:2-17. And in Romans 2:14 God gave us morals. But this is not to say the more we commit a sin, the more we practice in something, the less guilty we feel about it. The more we are exposed to sin, the more willing we are to accept it, and it begins to not phase us. But you can realize this by common examination, and personal experiences. When you were just a kid, you didn't know what lying meant. But your mom asks you "did you clean your room", you say, "yes", but you didn't. The second you say this lie, even before knowing what a lie is, you know you did something wrong. There is no man made law in the USA against lying to your parents, in fact, many people encourage it, which is why many people don't care about it anymore, because they have grown used to it. Yet, it is LAW by God's standards in Exodus, in fact you are disrespecting your parents, and you are "bearing false witness", you are lying. You committed two sins, right then, and you felt guilty, right then, even without knowledge of sin, or lying, without any man made law, you knew you did something wrong. We were born to know right from wrong because God imputed these things in us. And when we sin, we commit every sin, James 2:10.
Another misconception you have of the Bible yet again. Even though I have provided this answer previously, I will again. First, let me say you are correct. The 76% of "professing Christians", the majority of them will most likely not make it to Heaven. Why? If you examine this 76%. 60% of these Christian believe they are saved by works. If you read Ephesians 2:8-9 works does not save you. They believe "I am a good person, I am going to Heaven". And of this 76% of Christians, only 30% believe that Jesus is the reason they are saved. And if you were to examine this 30% I am sure many of them believe that just because Jesus died, that the majority of them are going to heaven. Which is also not true. The Bible also says that many people who believe they are saved, will not make it in (Matthew 7:22-23) and this is because they were not saved to begin with. Hence why many people you believe to be "Christian" are hypocrites is because they are not saved. Also if you look at this 76% many of them believe just going to Church will save them. You see many people are deluded these day's because Pastor's are not doing their job. We are not training people properly, and also you have to take into account many of these 76% also fall away from the faith, which is a sign of a unbeliever. The Bible's says in Matthew 7:13 that the path to Heaven are narrow, and few will enter in, and the gate to destruction is large because many will enter through it. Meaning that more people are going to hell than to heaven. And you may say "well why is that"? Well take this board for example, me and anonni are the only two professing Christians on here. Now I do not even know if anonni is saved, and he doesn't know if I am saved. But based off statistics, it is very possible that one of us will fall away from the faith, and thus are unbelievers. But it is also not likely that either one of us would be standing this firm in our faith if we were not save, as examined in 1/2 Peter, and 1 John, a.k.a. the tests for a true believer. Despite us being the only two professing believers look how many here hate Christ, hate God, do not know if God exists, wants evidence to believe in God. Yet as I said it is by faith we believe in God, also shown through Ephesians 2:8-9. So assuming that the gates are narrow to Heaven, and wide to hell. The majority of you I would say are not saved, because of your lack of faith, and disbelief in God all together. It would take a larger doorway for the people on here who do not believe in God walking through the doorway at the same time. Than to a doorway to fit the two professing Christians on here, walking through the door at the same time. Wouldn't you agree? You know in Matthew 18:7-9 it talks about what is better than going to Hell. This verse is not to be taken literal it is saying to cut these things away from your life spiritually, whatever it is causing you to sin, STOP. Because in the end whatever it takes to stop sinning is better to get rid of it, then to go to hell. And based off what He says is better than going to hell, gets me thinking how can someone examine this verse and simply not care about their eternity, and where it is going to be spent?
Anyways as I've provided repent is Greek for metanoia, which mean's "to change your mind; reconsider; or, to think differently". Remember Proverbs 1:7, which says if we fear God, we are beginning to have wisdom. If you fear God, you begin to realize that God is gracious. You realize this because you realize He died for your sins John chapter 1 explains that God is Jesus. You continue to read through any of the gospels and see that Jesus went through suffering, was hung on a cross, because He took the weight of the worlds past, present, and future sins. He then rose again on the 3rd day like He said He would. He did this so that we could be reconciled back to Him. This is all explained in:
2 Corinthians 5:18-21 (New American Standard Bible)
18Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation,
19namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
20Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.
21He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
All these versus explain what I just stated above. Reconciliation means brought back to God. We were meant to have a relationship with God, but man ruined that in the Garden of Eden. But besides this, once we have fear of God, we then have Faith in God, once we have Faith that God did all this for us, and we have the realization that everyone has sinned, and everyone will go to hell unless we have Jesus (Romans 3:23, and Romans 6:23), we then have a repentance toward Jesus. We WANT to do better, we WANT to love God. And loving God is being obedient to His word. (Both Faith and Repentance is necessary, Mark 1:14-15) Repentance is a turn from selfish desires (sin), into selfless desires, serving the Lord and obeying His commands, and loving others, because if we obey His commands, we love God (John 14:21, 1 John 2:5, 1 John 4:20-21), but we are not perfect as Christians until we die, and then we are resurrected to Him (Philippians 1:21-26), and we have the relationship with God we were meant to have, unless you continue lying about and trying to hide your sins, which is what you are doing unless you repent, which is what Adam and Eve needed to do but didn't. You can only have repentance by Faith that Jesus will save you when you die. And when you have true repentance and realize how evil sin really is, which comes by fear of God's judgment and faith that Jesus will save you from this judgment, you will call upon the Lord, through prayer, and beg for His forgiveness (Romans 10:13). So repentance is not faith, but a result of faith which leads to salvation. Again, for someone who argues with the Bible, I kind of would think you'd at least grasp the general concept and ideas of it, instead of quoting references out of context and using them for something else, hence what you did in Deuteronomy, either you didn't know the full story, or you purposely did that.
Devils do not have Faith in Jesus, they hate Jesus, and when you study about the fall, the demons, are fallen angels, not decedents of Abraham are us, humans. The devils/demons decided to follow Lucifer to "rise above the Most High", and there was a war, and God cast them out. But the Bible also says this:
Hebrews 2:16-17 (New American Standard Bible)
16For assuredly He does not give help to angels, but He gives help to the descendant of Abraham.
17Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in all things, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.
Therefore, no. Demon's cannot be saved.
Now, in regards to the Spherical earth matter. Back in this time, there was no Greek or Hebrew word to describe a sphere, thus they said it is a circle. But also know that the Hebrew word, which is what "circle" is in the verse of Isaiah 40:21-22, which described the world as a circles, the Hebrew word is chuwg which means in this is translated to "a circle, circuit, compass". Now a circuit, if you don't know, is "beginning and ending at the same place" or "roundabout", and if you read your dictionary and read what a circle is, or
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/circle definition #16
"16. a sphere or orb: the circle of the earth.", the definition of a compass, again referring to a dictionary or,
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/compass "6. a passing round; circuit: the compass of a year. "
If you would like to read more about this in a lot less material then which you provided, and a lot less than a two hour video please go here:
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-c015.html
As far as science goes, yes I agree with you that you can conclude something by examining it. However, there is no real evidence, that the earth was caused by a big bang. HENCE, the Big Bang (are you ready for this?)
THEORY.
Now, referring to the video, I listened again, and I do stand corrected. Please forgive me, it was a mistake on my part. However, I think you would agree that you make mistakes as well. And to prevent further argument on my mistake, let me just say, that although I was mistaken about one thing, does not mean that I have made mistakes on everything else said. Just like you have made mistakes, not everything you have say is completely void just because of a mistake. If you chose to challenge this statement, please examine science, and how many mistakes scientist have made and corrected. Yet you still believe their theories and facts. Much like Hovind can make mistakes as well, and can exaggerate, so do you, so do I, so do scientist, and so does all man kind. You see, although I think Hovind makes great points in the flaws of science, he is still a man. Nothing more. Nothing less. But a man, although maybe billions and billions of years ago, his ancestors were frogs, he isn't now.
Luckily for us, God does not exaggerate or make mistakes, even though you claim he does, therefore are claiming you are a better God... so if you are would you be so kind as to make a "perfect" human in your eyes? You see God loved us and allowed us to choose Good or Evil, He allows us to make decisions. If you were to make what you consider a "perfect" human, I would assume you would get rid of evil, yet how do you define evil? Oh, and BTW, if you were to get rid of evil, and force us to be good, then we would have a dictating god, hmmm... how loving of you. Oh but I forgot, STD's are because of God, not because man decided to sleep with several creatures, which God warned us about doing. Oh I forgot death is because of God, not sin like Romans 6:23 says.
You see all the suffering is because of sin that man has decided to do, because God allowed it. He allowed free will. God is loving. Mankind are just idiots. But wait, it get's better, God died for us, so that we can be reconciled back to Him. Would you allow us to kill you, in the same fashion Christ was, if you were a god? Hmmm....
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