[Noctis]

Originally Posted by onion

We can go on and on all day about the flaws of evolution and the big bang theory, but I know nothing I can do will change your mind on it; because the only thing that can do so is God's word. I suggest reading Genesis 1-2 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=genesis+1-2 it goes into great detail about how the world was created. In fact the Bible tells us the world was a sphere. It tells us the world was expanded over empty space. It gives descriptions that no other doctrine has ever provided of creation, and all have been proven true through science.

Funny, it almost sounds like you're also suggesting that everyone made aware of science and chose another religion(say, Buddhism) did so only because of "God's" word.

I don't know what mockery of science you've been practicing, but anyone with a basic understanding of the speed of light can tell you that the universe is a lot older than 10,000 years old.

Atheist you say believe there is no God. Well let's put it this way.... Science has said that man knows 1 billionth of everything there is to know, which in my opinion is a very generous estimate. So just to see this number it is

0.000000001% of everything

The universe is infinite(or as close as it'll get), that number shouldn't discourage anyone. Also, we're learning new things everyday. In reality, that number is constantly going up.

now let's be even more generous and assume ONE atheist on this world knows 1% of everything. There is still a 99% chance they are wrong.

I see you failed math in school.
If one atheist knows 1% of everything, then I suppose the fact that there are millions of atheists in the world means that we know over 100% of "everything"?

But that's not my point. In our lifetime, we will learn very little about the world that we didn't know yesterday. Only few people will ever make any great number of discoveries(Einstein, Stephen Hawkings). Yet even if one person only makes a small contribution to that 0.0000000000000001%, the fact that there are MILLIONS of people over many generations making such contributions certainly help the odds.

So you say God is good? He is in a way that humanly is inconceivable. But if you deny Him in this life, He will deny you in the next. I suggest reading Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God by Jonathan Edwards and tell me what you think after that. And here are some passages that show that even though God is a good God, He is also a Just God. We have sinned against Him, which is breaking God's law. If someone were to commit murder, would you want them punished for it? Or would you just say, you know what, it's okay. You disobeyed the Law, but I'll let it pass, you're free to go..?

God is a judge. We deserve Hell.

How about this for an analogy?

You're guilty of a crime that someone says you've committed.
Only thing is, everyone's guilty.
The goofball who wrote the law made it so that simply by existing, they are guilty of a crime.

Wouldn't you accuse this person of being a retarded psychopath?

Now because this person is very powerful and has threatened to do very bad things to you if you don't go through with his psychotic demands, you happily kiss his ass to save your own.

Congratulations, I can see that you're truly deserving of Heaven. [/sarcasm]

Originally Posted by onion

Yes my first sentence is redundant. It's imposing the same question the author of this thread asked, because their question is also redundant. If you read my passages, God said He made the foolishness of the world, the wise of the world. And because people seek earthly wisdom, they reject God. The other passages warn us of science, and the folly of man's ways. Look. I am not here to argue. So This WILL be my last post, just to clarify somethings up; not to impose more arguments.

Ridiculous, it's in human nature to ask questions and to seek answers. You may as well punish an apple for falling down because of gravity.

It seems to me that you believe science is "evil" and that everyone on earth should remain ignorant peasants living in the Stone Age.

Let me clarify: I was saying, anything that I say in word's cannot change your mind on God. The Bible and God are the only people who can change anyone's mind. The Bible is "sharper than any two edged sword".

Just to clarify, the Bible is not a person and should not be referred to as such.

Second, my Spyderco Endura folding knife with ZDP-189 Powder Metal steel would like to challenge the claim that the Bible is sharper than it. I'm pretty sure that I can use it to shave with. I'd like to see the Bible do that.

But in the same token, believing in God is a process having faith isn't something that is one day there. So by "planting" the seed of God's word into the people who read it, God will use it to grow in them, and maybe one day they will come to Salvation. I have no mean's to convert people, only offer what I feel is truth, and if anyone becomes saved, I would like to pray for them so they aren't tempted to stray from God. My argument of nothing I say will change your mind stands firm because I can say something to plant the seed but ultimately God will change it, and the reason I can't change your mind is because I am not a credible source, but the Bible is because it has been around for a long period of time, but ultimately takes faith to believe it. Much like science takes faith in human observations in order to believe it and because I have little faith in humans, science does not have many credible sources in my eyes.

The crazy man screams at me that I'm on fire and that it needs to be put out. I tell him that I'm fine and that I don't need to be "saved". Naturally, neither one of us can convince the other to believe otherwise. The question we need to ask ourselves is: Which one of us is sane, and which of us is crazy?

I find your views on science to be amusing.

Science says that if you jump off a bridge, you will fall because of gravity. Would you care to test your faith in science by jumping off a bridge? How about going 5,000 feet under the ocean without a pressure suit? In space without a space suit? Perhaps you'd like to hold a block of sodium in your hand and pour water over it?

Our modern world is built on science. Without it, you wouldn't even be typing on this forum, much less living in your own home.

Do not mock it.

I never said the core purpose of the bible changed, I said the core meaning of it never has. Science is always finding out new observations, and new things that they once believed to be false. The Bible's beliefs, verses, etc, have NEVER changed their meaning. Irregardless of what people deem to be contradictions in the Bible, it has always stayed the same.

The Bible has been "translated" multiple times. This is why you have so many "versions" of the same book(King James Version, New International Version, etc.)
Even with a word for word translation, the concepts and meanings can be lost.
There are also an infinite number of "interpretations" for the passages and verses.

Math and science at least have just one way to read it. 1+1 will always equal 2. Try to read it another way and you'll be dead WRONG.

As I've stated Science and Religion both take faith. As I've quoted the Bible states that the foolishness of man has become the wisdom of the world, and the foolishness of God is much wiser than the wisdom of the world. Therefore you say that one is blind faith and the other is faith. I'm assuming you consider science faith; and religion blind faith. Well I guess that's all a matter of opinion. Is putting your faith in the wisdom of man or the wisdom of God more foolish? Consider the verse I mentioned I'd say I'd rather put my faith in the wisdom of God. In the end science is all observations of man, and I don't want to know how often man's calculations are wrong. I am not saying that science doesn't provide great technology, and great advances in our world today, but looking at Creationism vs Science, whichever you believe is purely off faith. If this weren't so then the big bang theory wouldn't be starting to get over ruled by a creationist theory by scientist all over. Again this comes back to science changing their core beliefs once again.

Yeah, God's wisdom did great for us. I mean, where did we get with that wisdom?

Bows and arrows? Wood and brick houses with shoddy construction? Raping conquered people? Forcing raped women to marry their rapists? Genocide? The Crusades? Having everyone say "God Bless you" everytime someone sneezed in order to try and stop the spread of the Black Plague? Exorcisms that kill people and don't solve their obvious psychological disorders?

Feel free to stop me anytime.

I am not trying to disprove you. I am simply asking, if you are athiest, or believe that this life is all we have to live then... Say in the end of the world I am wrong about God, but I lived a happy life serving Him, and others. And I die, to find out that my 80 or so years on earth, was all there was to live. Big deal, right? It won't matter because I am dead, and there's nothing after. I lived a good life, and now I'm gone, everything earthly is gone, and I'm in a grave. Now we turn the tables, in the end you live your 80 years happily serving yourself, in whatever it is you like to do whether that be drinking, hanging out with friends, education, WHATEVER it is you like. And you die, and you find out you were wrong, and God is very much real. Then what? Were you're 80 years happily on earth worth the eternity of hell? It's just a question, I am not trying to disprove anything I am just asking you... what if? I think viewing life on earth 80 years and that is it is a very sad take on this world. But by all means if that's what you believe, well I hope you squeeze all this world has to offer you. And make your time here worth it, whether your wrong or I am wrong.

Well there's the major flaw that seems to pop up in nearly every argument between two people. Nobody ever considers the possibility that BOTH sides are wrong. Maybe we'll both go to hell because "God" is a psychotic maniac who gets off on people suffering. Maybe neither of us will go to hell because God's a swell guy who cares more about who we are as people rather than the less important fact of whether or not we believe in him.

Personally, I think that you don't value your time here on earth, at all. Even IF there's an afterlife, you'll still only live just once(assuming reincarnation is false of course).