[Lugez]

Originally Posted by Annoni

I know this is the same answer you'll get almost anywhere but here I go. If there was definite proof, then there would be no faith required, and thus no choice.

I get it. The faith thing. I just want people to also think for themselves and not get all their answers from a book. Know what I mean?

Did you HONESTLY just say the earth is 4.6 billion years old? Evidence also suggest that if the flood really did happen, things would certainly seem billions of years older. These are also real facts, acknowledge these before you debate further.

Let me ask you this, I have a hard time understand. According to you, how did earth come to be?

Ok...I think we're going down the wrong path here. I don't want to respond to this because we're debating how a belief system can work by believing in God, but not believing in the Bible. The flood debate can save for another discussion. All I can say is take a geology course or something. You'll learn alot.

As for how the earth came to be: I honestly have no idea. I'm not a geologist or astronomer. But what makes sense to me is that God may have started something (created science, rather) and then life/nature/the universe took over from there...All I know is that this huge chunk of rock has been here LONG before we have, and will be around LONG after we're gone (assuming that the human species doesn't live long enough for the sun to destroy the earth).

He did it for both, sort of. I actually believe He did do it for both.

I disagree, but opinion respected.

Yes! It's a battle. Yes, we really have free will still. There's a lot of room to move around between those two. The most influence depends on what you truly want and what's in your heart, so it's going to vary from person to person. Some people rejoice in sin, others rejoice in purity. But as it is, sin tends to be a lot more tempting to us.

But you say that God made us good, without evil. So why would our hearts gravitate towards sin if that's not what we were made for? And if a person's heart is leaned more towards sin, isn't that a little unfair? I still don't see how we have a free will if whats in our hearts dictates whether we rejoice in purity or sin. It sounds like it's already been decided for us when we were born.

That's exactly it! It's Satan's fault. This is exactly what evil is. This is why it is such a heartbreaker for God! It's is sin's fault, man and woman were made good, but sin is the evil. Satan condemns them of his will to destroy all of God's creation, in order that God may be hurt by the loss. But God haas the ultimate counter to Satan, and that is Jesus, but in sin people find ways to make Jesus fake or a lie, or twist around the truth, so that through sin, Satan gets his way and one more person cannot be with God, their Creator.

Again, I don't see how free will fits into all this if Satan is the one controlling us. God should be punishing Satan, not the people.

You're partially right and partially wrong, you have to remember God is the one thing that will never change; everything else changes and because of that we may see different sides of Him.

I agree that HE never actually changes, but I disagree that we see different sides to Him. I believe that it's society twisting and manipulating us to believe that God acts a certain way and wants certain things out of us. But who is right? Is anyone right? It's impossible to tell.

Praise and worship is not just sitting back. There are quite a few things you can do very actively for God in praise and worship.

I don't mean to say that people should sit back. I guess I can understand how you could get that vibe, but that's not what I meant.

And I agree. Given the individual, praise and worship may work for him/her. But I don't believe the same glove fits all.

Oh there's TONS. I don't know a whole lot off the top of my head though. Can I have some by Monday? I'm not as wise about the bible as some people here think I am. One huge one though is the coming of the Messiah, the messenger, Jesus. But, I think you'll say that could be debated when the things were wrote and when (if?) Jesus did come, so I'll try to find some more modern day ones. I know some, but I have to find where they are in the Bible.

I shall give you time. If anyone else knows any, feel free to give out some....