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Grizabella Offline
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Name: Jessica
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Re: what is so wrong about gay marriage??? - June 19th 2009, 04:07 AM

Quote:
-Yes, it was. Pick up a history book sometime.
Apparently you need to pick up a non-revisionalist history book not written by fundamntalist Christian propagandists.

The US was NOT founded on Christianity. Christians attempt to rewrite history, saying the US government derived from Christian foundations, that the founding fathers aimed for a Christian nation...the theory just does not hold up to historical evidence.

Many Americans practiced Christianity. Of course they did, that is not possible to deny. But there were also many with more deistic philosophies - something "Christian foundation" propagandists seem content to ignore. Most of the influential founding fathers held to freemasonry and deism, not Christianity. They respected the rights of other religions, but they were NOT Christians.

The constitution dictates law in America, and it indicates the intent of the founding fathers. It is a secular document. Nowhere does it appeal to God, Jesus, or Christianity. The US government derives from people, not God, and that is made clear in the beginning of the Constitution: "We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect Union...." The fact that they leave God out is not an accident. They didn't just forget to mention Him. The omission of God reflects the intention of the founding fathers to keep government separate from religion.

As someone pointed out earlier, the Constitution actually states that government should not be based on religion: "Congress shall make NO law respecting an establishment of religion".

Thomas Jefferson made an interpretation of the First Amendment in a letter to a Baptist Association calling it "a wall of separation between church and State". Hardly the words of a founding father basing his nation on Christianity. Madison wrote that "strongly guarded...is the separation between religion and government."

Aside from the Constitution, many Christians who think that America was founded on Christianity try to use the Declaration of Independence as "proof". The reason is obvious - the Declaration mentions God. However, the Declaration does not represent any law of the US. It predates the establishment of lawful government. The purpose of the Declaration was to separate America from Great Britain and lists various grievances with them. It holds no legal power - it represents an historical document about intentions of rebellion against Britain. The mention of God in the Declaration does not describe the personal God of Christianity. Thomas Jefferson, a holder of Deist beliefs, wrote the majority of it.

If the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence don't do it for you, there's more. The Treaty of Tripoli, written in the late 1700s, could not be clearer about the secular nature of the US government to foreign nations. In Article 11, it states:

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

The preliminary treaty began with a signing in the last year of Washington's presidency. Joel Barlow, American diplomat, held responsibility for treaty negotiations. Barlow abandoned Christian orthodoxy for rationalism and became an advocate for - you guessed it -secular government. He wrote the English version of the treaty, including Article 11. He forwarded it to US legislators for approval - it was endorsed by the secretary of state, and John Adams, now during his presidency concurred. Throughout approval by Senate, wording of Article 11 never raised even the slightest concern. So here we have a clear admission by the US in 1797 that it did not found itself upon Christianity - and unlike the Declaration, this treaty did represent law.

So now that we've got that cleared up, I think we can safely reject any claim that gay marriage should not be allowed on the basis of Christian foundations of state.


Not around so much now that school's started

"Live a good life.
If there are gods and they are just,
then they will not care how devout you have been,
but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by.
If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them.
If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life
that will live on in the memories of your loved ones."
Marcus Aurelius