How LGBT is presented in the media

[ThePunkAlien]

This isn't really a thread for advice, but more just - I was curious to see what others thought about how LGBT is portrayed in the media (film, TV, etc).

As a bi guy, the one thing I never got was why a lot of gay guys (not many bi guy characters around) are shown as overly feminine. I know that some gay guys are like that, so it's not completely made up. But, it's rare to see the media depict a gay guy like any other guy with the only thing different being the preference of who he likes. I really like the British show & now Showtime show 'Shameless' in how they depict Ian Gallagher. A regular guy, just happens to like guys.

Personally, I think it's because the media might be scared of showing gay guys like any other guy for the most part. Like some notions might be too radical since it would show that we can blend into plain sight without anyone being the wiser - with none of the "stereotypical" trademarks. It would delete the notion of there being a "big difference" or "great divide" between straight and gay.

As a bi guy, I don't mean any offense but it can be a little insulting to think that most people think - well "he likes guys, he's feminine." I don't have a lisp, I'm far from being feminine and I'm like any other guy who just happens to be attracted to both men and women on a look & emotional level. That's why, as I said before, Ian Gallagher's my favorite portrayal and I haven't seen that many that show it like it is. I really wish more people knew and it would be stressed more often - Alexander the Great & James Dean, very manly guys were both bi. Might change how people look at it. Enforce that, in the end, it's all the same.

What do you think about the way the LGBT community is presented?
What do you think of the stereotypes formed?
Why do you think media presents it like this?

[Acheron]

Originally Posted by ThePunkAlien

As a bi guy, the one thing I never got was why a lot of gay guys (not many bi guy characters around) are shown as overly feminine. I know that some gay guys are like that, so it's not completely made up. But, it's rare to see the media depict a gay guy like any other guy with the only thing different being the preference of who he likes. I really like the British show & now Showtime show 'Shameless' in how they depict Ian Gallagher. A regular guy, just happens to like guys.

Personally, I think it's because the media might be scared of showing gay guys like any other guy for the most part. Like some notions might be too radical since it would show that we can blend into plain sight without anyone being the wiser - with none of the "stereotypical" trademarks. It would delete the notion of there being a "big difference" or "great divide" between straight and gay.

As a bi guy, I don't mean any offense but it can be a little insulting to think that most people think - well "he likes guys, he's feminine." I don't have a lisp, I'm far from being feminine and I'm like any other guy who just happens to be attracted to both men and women on a look & emotional level. That's why, as I said before, Ian Gallagher's my favorite portrayal and I haven't seen that many that show it like it is. I really wish more people knew and it would be stressed more often - Alexander the Great & James Dean, very manly guys were both bi. Might change how people look at it. Enforce that, in the end, it's all the same.

Truth be told, I've never met a gay or bi guy that wasn't at least somewhat feminine. Even those who try to deny it, they'll still have some tell that marks them out. Admittedly I'm more obsessive about body language than most people, but I also have ridiculously good gaydar, so I think I might be onto something.

And your historic examples aren't that convincing. While there are arguments that James Dean was bisexual, there are also arguments that say that he put out to other guys only as a means of advancing his career. In other words, he was straight, but the people around him weren't. And in the case of Alexander the Great, there isn't that much that we know about him except that he was a brilliant general. I don't see any reason why a feminine man, or indeed a woman, wouldn't be able to pull off that feat. While Alexander was obviously exceptional, I don't think that his conquests could only have been carried out by a man. Point is, he could have been feminine, and that wouldn't be inconsistent with his achievements.

Not that I think that no gay or bi guy could be masculine. It could be that the openly gay guys I know are feminine, but that that isn't representative. Or that there are masculine straight guys who secretly thirst for cock.

[ThePunkAlien]

If that was the case my family, sister and friends would all know by now. My Mom? She thinks I'm a homophobe because I don't want to talk about things in the news concerning being gay - mostly because that's kinda like the "the birds the bees talk" to me. That's in addition to checking out (not hiding that I do) guys when we're out. My sister also claims to have "good gaydar" - yet as a bi guy, I'm invisible. So as for a tell? No such thing, I live it and actually I'm surprised because I haven't necessarily hid it in years.

I'm not saying all gay and bi guys are masculine. What I'm saying is the public perception does bother me. The notion of a 'gaydar.' There are just as many feminine gay guys as there are feminine straight guys and vica-versa. It's not like all bi and gay guys are one way, it's just as diverse as straight guys. I truly believe, if it's seen more diverse things'll get better.

James Dean came out. Hollywood, despite what people think, is a hard place to come out in. Dean's agents didn't want him to come out and were angry at the comments he made - he stated, when asked about relationships, that he doesn't believe in keeping one arm tied behind his back. He didn't plain out say what he meant - but in context it's beyond simple. If he was doing that to "get ahead" behind closed doors - in a beyond conservative age - he wouldn't be saying things like that to the press where it could hurt him. It would remain behind closed doors. That's why he's one of my heroes, while "the man" was telling him to hide it - he said fuck no, fuck this and came out in his own way. That takes guts, especially back then.

I'm not necessarily saying Alexander has to be the most masculine of men, he does seem to go against the stereotype though. Alright, look at it this way - what the fuck is up with "don't ask, don't tell" in the military? If Alexander was around today, they'd say "no way" - what the bloody hell? One of our greatest war heroes of all time was bi. It's hypocritical.

Basically, all I'm saying is, I want stereotypes to end. I want the diversity to be portrayed as it is. Because it is diverse. Plus, with all honesty, I think things would get better for everyone if those stereotypes do end. Ex: People believe/say those who are bi are in it for double the sex - me? I'm just naturally that way, no higher or lower sex drive than the average guy. I just happen to click with both. I'm happy with it and I was born that way.

Not all straight guys are presented as one uniformed image. Gay/bi guys should be treated the same way. And as said, the one example I gave before, 'Shameless' does that perfectly. That's all I'm look for. Equality. That would be real.

Imagine every straight guy being portrayed in the media as a big macho guy who only cares about sex and shows absolutely no emotion. Unreal right? Same thing here.

[Acheron]

This is why I shouldn't post while drunk. Even if there is a tendency towards femininity among gay/bi guys, I absolutely agree with you that people should be treated as individuals.

[Ellen]

That is actually one of the many things that upsets me about the media. People make the silly assumption that if a guy is feminine, they are gay and, to a lesser but still extreme extent, that all independent, masculine women are gay (I hate the word lesbian, sorry).

[Astrael]

I get what you mean about society always portraying gay men as "overly flamboyant". There's actually a tv show series "Queer as Folk" (VERY graphic). Most of the main characters, Brian especially, actually are very "manly" people. Where as Emmett(another character) is extremely flamboyant. The show kind of shows how it REALLY is for gays and that they could be all around you and you don't know it.

[SummerTiger]

I have a gay friend, lets call him R, who none of my other friends, male or female, thought was gay until he came out. R does everything your average male student does, so others see him as pretty "masculine". In fact, feminine does not factor into his personality at all. If he hadn't told us he was gay, we would have no idea.

Sure, there are some gays that may fall into the category of 'feminine' by our standards, but i feel that there are just as many others who aren't as easy to spot. It's a bit disconcerting to me that people truly believe that all gays are woman-like. It's as if: A) this categorization hints at the innate weakness of homosexuals because of their similarity with the 'weaker sex', and B) the gays are reducible to a few stereotypical traits that make themseem sub-human (increased desire for sex, femininity, OCD-like, distinct physical appearance and walk, to name a few -- which are not exclusive to gays anyway!).

I feel that the portrayal of gays in the media prevents people from using their own judgment. It creates false notions of what it means to be gay, and then people need to re-learn to see others as human beings and not a bundle of traits, most of which are wrong anyway... Personally, I see a resemblance between the stereotype of the feminine gay male and the stereotypical bird-brained housewife. Both images are somewhat comical, shown for the sake of entertainment more so than for accurate portrayal of a woman or a man.

-Tiger

[SouthernBelle.]

Actually, I don't really mind how gays are portrayed in the media. It's like this to me: They have their ideas of what gays and lesbians are like, but we -- the actual gays and lesbians -- know what we're actually like.

If they [the media] choose to think we're like that, then honestly, I just laugh and go on. For instance, one of my favorite shows -- the Golden Girls -- had an episode where Rose accidentally volunteered them for a talk show, the subject of which being lesbians. Of course they made it funny.

But honestly, let's look at it this way:


Figure A:

A straight girl on a movie might coo and squeal and jump up and down be hopelessly preppy and mean. Straight people laugh at it because it's just plain hilarious. Does that mean that all straight girls are like that? No. There are some girls who are like that, but there are other types of girls, too.

Figure B:

A lesbian girl on a movie is this athletic type girl who has short hair and dresses only in masculine clothes and acts all in all like a sports jock, all the while managing to make things look hilarious. Does this mean that we lesbians are all female sports jocks who wear masculine clothes and run about cracking dry-humored jocks and stalking a pretty, harmless straight girl? No.

Figure C (compare to B so as not to take offense):

This straight dude in a movie walks around all the time hitting on girls, making dry-humored jokes, and all-in-all being hilarious. Honestly, when comparing this movie to the movie in Figure B, is it any less funny, just because it has a straight guy and not a lesbian girl? No. You can still laugh your head off at it.



So, to sum it all up: Straight people in movies are sometimes made to look like idiots for the sake of comedy, gays/lesbians in movies are sometimes made to look like idiots for the sake of comedy, and everyone laughs at them -- not because they think there's something wrong with them! -- but because it's funny. Therefore, I don't feel guilty or offended when laughing at a gay or a lesbian portrayed in a way that was meant to be funny, in the same way I don't feel guilty or offended laughing at a straight person portrayed in a way that was meant to be funny.

[Guile]

Stereotypes aren't just made up on a whim, they come into existence because, well, they exist...

Maybe people should reflect on things like "Gay Pride Parades" before blaming the media

[Pelios]

I've never meet a gay guy that wasn't feminine. I also don't think that stereotype will go away anytime soon, everyone has to deal with some kind of stereotype in their lives.

[SummerTiger]

Ana -- what you're saying is true, however, people seeing characters like your A and C KNOW that those are just stereotypes (even though there are plenty of people out there who just happen to fit the stereotype). BUT people seeing a short-haired, sporty lesbian girl dressed like a male think that that's how all lesbians are in real life. Even though there may be an air of comedy surrounding her, most people still accept her masculine dress and other stereotypical traits as the ABSOLUTE TRUTH about gay women. What I'm saying is because most of us perceive the gays as a group partly shrouded in mystery, we tend to we are more willing to fit any clue fed to us by the media to our picture of who the gays are and what they stand for.