Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

That's my point. People ask for evidence of everything, but for some reason god is exempt from that. It doesn't make any sense.[/quote]

God is not exempt from it b/c if He was, you wouldn't talk about would. Would we? Just like the big bang, you can't prove that either and yet we talk about it. If you don't believe fine, Christians live by Faith not by sight but if you need sight to have faith in anything, thats you're thing. I don't think this Religion vs. non-religious battle will ever stop and even when people are 90, they're still gonna debate about it. There's no point.

We Christians believe one thing, you believe in another.

It kinda seems like Christians are sometimes the target of this.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

God is not exempt from it b/c if He was, you wouldn't talk about would. Would we? Just like the big bang, you can't prove that either and yet we talk about it. If you don't believe fine, Christians live by Faith not by sight but if you need sight to have faith in anything, thats you're thing. I don't think this Religion vs. non-religious battle will ever stop and even when people are 90, they're still gonna debate about it. There's no point.

We Christians believe one thing, you believe in another.

It kinda seems like Christians are sometimes the target of this.[/quote]

I target anyone who presents things as fact with no empirical evidence to attribute to them

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

Hypersonic: I target anyone who presents things as fact with no empirical evidence to attribute to them

Suniesha: So you also target the people who believe in the Big Bang?

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

Who made that law? Who made the person that made that law? Who made they're family? Who made all this? I can't help but not believe that someone didn't make the world. I think God did. What I was saying is that not any other religion is really being targeted here besides Christians.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

Chelsey, i think you left yourself open to some serious cynics lol

lets just leave the faith thing to you and I, we dont have to prove anything, its impossible to convince people of something they dont believe in. It was good of you to try though.

:) xx

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

Totally agreed.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

What you think doesn't depend on logic, reasoning, etc. It only depends on Faith. Do you agree?

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

Oh, I'm not trying to convince anyone whether or not God is real. That's my own personal belief and I don't really care what anyone else believes in. What I'm, overall, trying to get at is this: Don't tell me that my god doesn't exist unless you can prove to me that he doesn't. In a debate, if you're going to bring up that Christianity is a bunch of crap, please do feel free to prove to me that it is. It's been said a billion times and more, "Prove to me that Christianity is the real deal." Well, prove to me that it's not.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

It's ridiculous because we're talking about religion here. Religion is the reason that a lot of people die all over the world everyday. It, for some people, depending on their beliefs, determines their eternity. Religion is a way of life for many, many people... And you're challenging that with a pot of gold who apparently has the ability to think?


Because if you can believe in God and put your trust in him based on what the Bible says, that's true devotion. But if you have to have everything displayed before you before you even think about believing, you would have never been devoted to God in the first place.

And Christians do talk to God. Prayer. In Christianity, you're meant to have a relationship with God. You pray and he answers, no, not verbally, but he answers. And as soon as this is read, some people will say, "Well, what about those people who pray for something and don't get it?" It's because God has a different plan. It's not about us, remember? Just because we want something doesn't mean we always get it.

If a five year old goes into a pet store and asks their father for a dog, does the father HAVE to get the child the dog? No. The child may not understand why daddy won't get them a puppy, but the father has his reasons.

It's different because I don't care whether or not you have five heads. If it was something that might change my life or future, then yeah, I'd care about it.

I did answer the first time. Here was my answer:

It's not about everyone getting to heaven. It's about those who follow God and believe in him by faith, like the Bible says. God would like for everyone to be able to make it into heaven, but unfortunately for them, there are people who need proof for everything, particularly religion.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

Just a thought; if God is going to punish us by sending us to fiery oblivion for not believing in him and his wonderful son, shouldn't he at least provide a single reason to have faith in him?

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

The reasons he provides for us are all throughout the Bible, particularly the New Testament.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

God is down to personal beliefs and nothing more. there is no way currently to prove there is/are God(s) which makes this thread stupid and pointless

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

Aren't you screwed if that's a lie and Hinduism is the 'true religion'? Don't you think that if you were raised in Istanbul you would have ended up as a Muslim?

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

But there's no reason to believe the bible is truth. I could also make the argument that proof of the Egyptian gods' existence is in the Scroll of Thoth. But that's ridiculous, because the Scroll of Thoth is not historical fact - it's a myth.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

If that be the case, that will be my problem, I suppose.

This thread has gotten way off topic. It's supposed to be about what exactly proof would be, not whether or not God is real. It's more of a statement: Don't ask us for proof if you can't provide any either. Why does that not make sense to anyone?

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

It doesn't make sense as it's the side that is saying that something exists who need to provide the proof. The default position if you cannot prove something exists is disbelief. The only way to prove something does not exist is lack of proof that it does exist, it's is a logical paradox to say "prove this doesn't exist".

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

Far as I can tell, we're still on topic. I asked what proof God has shown - you said the bible. I gave you a reason why I don't think that constitutes proof.

If I claim that I have a cure for cancer, it's not everyone else's job to prove that it DOESN'T cure cancer - it's my job to prove that it DOES. Likewise, if someone claims that God is real, it's not other people's jobs to disprove it.

If it's the case that someone believes in God, and is willing to leave everyone else alone about it, that's fine. But when religious people attempt to manipulate laws and society to incorporate their beliefs in God without any evidence for his existence, that's a problem.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

The idea of a lack of god can be proven. There is no evidence to suggest it so why believe in it.

And if you twist that around like I assume you will, then shouldn't you believe in everything that hasn't been proven? Or does that sound crazy?

(sorry for my crap grammar)

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

But if someone challenges you and states that you haven't found a cure for cancer, I would think that if they're going to make THAT claim, it's their job to prove that it doesn't cure cancer.

Yeah. That's all true. Actually, it's one of the best counter-replies I think this thread has gotten.

But I don't think that just because God hasn't shown himself it means that he doesn't exist.

But that really was a great reply.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

So if lots of people died trying to get the pots of gold that didn't want to be found then it would be the same? Money and materialism is a way of life for money people. I fail to see the difference.



Again, would you trust a stranger? someone you've never met or talked to

Correction, christians talk AT god, and get no response. You can pretend something is a response or a "sign", but you have no proof that it is.



Whether you care or not is irrelevent though. It's the same thing. Just because you like something better it's allowed not to have proof? That's absurd.


So if you're an intelligent person who wants to be able to back up their claims you're not worthy to go to heaven? no matter if you're the nicest most honest and caring person in the world? How is asking for proof an "unfortunate" thing? How is blindly following something ever a good idea? If you met a stranger who said if you jumped off the bridge with them you'd go to a magical wonderful place called heaven, would you? no of course you wouldn't. Does that make sense to you because it sure doesn't to me. You wouldn't apply that same leap of faith to anything on earth, so how can you justify it in the case of an unprovable god?


EDIT: I apologize for the way I expressed myself. I realized after I wrote this that the tone of it is a little harsh. I'm not trying to criticize you. You have every right to believe what you want and the truth of the matter is that nobody knows for sure whether or not god exists. I'm just having a little trouble understanding the train of thought I guess. It seems a little hypocritcal to me to apply a different standard to the concept of god than to other things, but perhaps I'm just being a tad close-minded. I'd still like to hear what you have to say but I promise to be more respectful from now on.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

You're missing one very important point: Christianity isn't about morals, it's about obedience. Throughout the Bible it is stated time and time again that all sins are equally bad as they are all transgressions against God's will. The upshot of this is that there is no means for telling the difference between a moral and an immoral action other than whether God says it is moral or immoral: if we have no criteria for ranking the sinfulness of an act, how else can we decide what is and what isn't a sin? The "good non-believer" is therefore an oxymoron: the only concept of "good" in Christianity is obedience to God, which naturally includes believing in God's existence.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

I think it it does depend on reasoning and logic, just like everything does.. And everything needs faith.


Yes, there is no way to prove that God exsits, pastors and preachers agree but we also can't prove the big bang or any other way of the Earth forming.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

We also can't prove gravity, but it's pretty obviously a correct theory.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

Technically you can prove gravity.. I personally don't believe the big bang, I believe that Jesus came down to die for our sins..

& I'm gonna leave it at that.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

Jesus can still have come down to die for our sins AND the big bang can still have happened. The two are not incompatible.

Gravity hasn't been proven, hence why it is still "the theory" of gravity.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

We also don't have to believe the 'theory' of electricity, but I'd advise you to. ;)

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

If that was directed at me I think you'll find that was exactly my point.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

I was agreeing with you

cheers

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

How is it logical? How does everything need faith? You believe in something you cannot see, touch, etc. because you have faith. Faith is what someone has when there is no evidence, no proof, no shred of evidence for whatever they believe in.

Big Bang is supported by empirical evidence. ~99% of the scientific community understands and accepts the Big Bang theory. The only ones that do not place their faith above science. The studies are posted in the same journals that also post new research on cancer, HIV, heart disease, etc.

And technically nothing in science is proven, it is only suggested and supported. Same goes for medicine. Example: New research suggests that drug A kills cancer cells, therefore that drug will be used to treat cancer patients.
Gravity has not been proven but evidence does suggest that gravity exists, however, there is still A LOT of conflict between scientists of how exactly gravity works. And as far as I know we are still having problems trying to measure gravity waves. Same goes for Big Bang and evolution. Scientists accept both theories but out of each theory can come a thousand new hypotheses which can or cannot lead to new theories which can in turn provide more support for the original theory, alter the original theory, or refute it.


And again, nothing in science is EVER proven, ever. Forget the word "proof", "proven", "right". Those words are only used to try to give laymen an easier understanding. Those words are generally irrelevant in the scientific circles because everything is based on theories which are supported by empirical evidence which takes years and year and years of very careful experimentation and study. Then you present your findings that support your hypothesis to other scientists that test them and retest them, and then test them again. And then your hypothesis becomes a theory if a large body scientists comes to the same conclusion. And even after you have a concrete theory that doesn't mean it can't be altered or even refuted in the future.

The word hypothesis doesn't even apply to God because science does not deal with the supernatural.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

HAHAHAHAHAHA,you people... Think whatever you want I know the way, the truth AND the life.. I don't need you're Theroies, if you don't believe then thats you're choice but I know whats right. Not the "big bang," thats not how the Universe or the Earth was made. That theroy was made so non-religious have something to argue about with the religious people.. people can't post things on here saying "How great is our God" without someone putting a snide message on there.. Its crap! Reply to this.. Idc anymore.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

I am a radical lover of God and I understand all these arguments. God isn't logically and I don't understand it. But I have seen so many things and ive seen so many people completely changes, so there is no way I can't believe in God.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

So what proof do you need to prove god is Real a sample of Jesus hair?

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

You misunderstood me, although I do qualify that I should have been more clear. Like I asked, what scientific evidence is there that God does not exist? As in, which theories and laws are in direct disputation with the concept of God? To me personally, I find it insufficient to base my whole belief system on the assumption that because there is no "fire breathing unicorn that grants magical wishes" therefore automatically means there is no God.
Also I am not as knowledgable in scientific fields so I am curious of which theories support the God does not exist view. Other than, "It's just not possible." Which I find to be, again, insufficient.

Hence, being agnostic.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

This is circular reasoning. God exists because God says he exists. Doesn't work.

This makes absolutely no sense.

I think you should read the first post of this thread:

Hopefully now you understand why christianity is a main focus in this debate.


And why aren't the 2 incompatible?

First law of thermodynamics: Energy cannot be created nor destroyed, yet god is able to create energy, as somehow, he made himself.

Ah, ignorance and arrogance at its best. Well, if you need no theories then I suggest you get no health care as medicine is based off of theories. Also, computers use electricity, which unfortunately is based off a theory, so you may want to toss that out. So, if you want to abandon all scientific theories, then that'd mean you live in the wilderness, you don't attempt to see what is poisonous or not, so eat anything, and so forth. Unless, of course, you accept certain theories, which would obviously make you a hypocrite. Your choice: ignorance, arrogance and hypocrisy or only arrogance and ignorance.

Yes, of course, the Big Bang was made so us non-christians (I love how you automatically associated religious people with Christianity, another show of arrogance) could use something to debate with christians [/sarcasm].

Very few have been putting in snide messages without giving some back-up when referring to your god.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

So would you say that an atheist came up with the idea of Big Bang?

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

I call POE

Wait... she has scripture in her sig... fuck...

Says a member of an internet forum...

I'm also waiting for the reply of that poster :rolleyes:

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

Thanks for proving exactly what I thought about the idiocy of religion ^_^. I should point out that thankfully not all religious people are as closed-minded.

Just a question, if you have faith in God do you still get the sandbags out if it looks like flooding? If so you're not demonstrating faith in his ability to protect you. Not to mention he forsook New Orleans which I believe is largely Christian

I too am waiting for the reply from that particular post (although it appears she has not been on so let's not be unreasonable)