What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

So, a lot of times, when religion is mentioned, especially on TeenHelp, there are people that demand proof at every single debate. And that's not a bad thing, but if I'm arguing for Christianity and you're arguing that there is no god, now it's your turn to prove it. No, I can't prove with scientific facts that God is, indeed, real, but neither can you prove that he's not real.

I've heard that Christians are delusional. I've heard it said that Christians are crazy or insane for praying because it's just them "talking to no one". I've heard brainwashing. Speaking in tongues being of demons. All kinds of things.

Proof? Prove that there is no god. Prove that faith isn't the answer. Prove that you're right and every Christian in the world and I are wrong.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

Well the burden of proof lies on the person claiming something is real. I can claim that there is an invisible fire breathing dragon in my garage, however without proof I would be deemed "delusional". Especially if I let my belief in that invisible dragon dictate almost all my actions and decisions in my life and told everyone else that they should do the same.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

Religion is about Faith not so much God exist because of scientific Evidence.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

Yeah. I know. And I'm not trying to push it on anyone. This thread is strictly about what proof is and what would be considered as proof. I'm not worried about the general argument, "Christian vs. Atheist"... It's more of, if I don't prove myself right, you prove me wrong. Meh... I'm not sure I know really how to explain what I'm trying to say. I'll think about it and be back later.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

You've conveniently missed that atheists are also called delusional, lacking morals, etc... . Christians aren't the only ones getting this, so don't try to make it seem like they are.

The part in bold make this a rather silly idea because you openly admitted that it cannot be done. Proving that I'm right/wrong also falls under this.

As for proving the faith isn't the answer, this begs the question, what "answer" are you referring to? Is it about creation of humankind and the universe or is it simply about how you can be "blessed" and live your day-to-day life.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

I think it's more the idea that there is no God is infinitely more plausible than the idea that there is one. The fact that Atheists go "OMG YOU HAVE NO PROOF LOL" is more due to the fact that it is the person claiming that something exists that should provide the proof rather than the other way around.

Imagine it as an experiment. You have a hypothesis and a null hypothesis. The hypothesis is God exists, the null hypothesis must therefore be that God does not exist. If you cannot prove your hypothesis you must take the null hypothesis as being true.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

There is no way to logically prove that something doesn't exist, and assuming that something is true simply because it hasn't been disproved is fallacious.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

Owrly?

Right... I suggest you read abour Russel's Teapot.

"If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

Hmm... That does make a lot of sense.

And yes, I know that it can't really be proven either way, which is why this thread was made. Because I can't prove anything, but neither can anyone else in the world.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

Maybe because there is nothing to prove?? o.O

Like could you prove there is not an invisible, transcendent fairies sitting on everyone's heads? The claim is ridiculous & UNTESTABLE, that doesn't make it true or EVEN WORTH WASTING TIME OVER. It is possible... but I think even you would agree it is moronic to suggest the fairy theory as true.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

Yep, none of the religious can prove that their particular deities exist, therefore the logical position is not to believe in any of them.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

There are studies that show that prayer do not work when it comes to medical affairs. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/31/health/31pray.html

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

First off, i'm agnostic.
Secondly, i'm curious, can you guys give scientific facts beside "It's not plausible" or "It's like saying there's a giant talking lawn gnome in my bedroom that can fly and grant magical wishes". Please, if possible, someone state scientific evidence that God doesn't exist. Only facts. No speculation and no assumptions.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

Well obviously that's impossible to do. To outright give scientific evidence that God doesn't exist is at this point ludicrous and will be for a long time yet.

If you think about it, "gods work" has been disproved plenty of times. In the past God has been credited with everything from the sun rising to conception. However we now know that God has nothing to do with these things and science has filled in the gap in our knowledge of these things that God used to fill. It seems infinitly plausible that science will continue to do this, of course the more we understand about the universe the more questions are raised and this is where people place God, into any areas of uncertainty. The concept of God constantly changes and adapts to new scientific breakthroughs making it more difficult to disprove it, for example if you disprove a passage in the bible a plenthora of experts will come forward and say: "Ha! That passage was a metaphor and not meant to be taken literally" or they reinterpret it in relation to the modern breakthrough and the nature of God will change again.

Secondly there is evidence from which you can imply that God does not exist. For example, the link that Gram posted. That rather shows that either God does not exist or he does not respond to prayer does it not?

The fact is that nobody needs to disprove God. People need to prove it. The default position in this debate should be disbelief.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

Throughout history humans keep proving 'god' wrong, it is quite logical to see that god could only exist as the most simple of ideas. Really though, god is only a temporary answer for questions until science discovers the real one.

Fact:

You can't disprove something that doesn't exist.

How is this so hard to see?

Amen. Preach it sister! :haha:


Did you notice that most of people replying sound like they have no emotions whatesoever? Some sound true and honest, but some sound like this.

If God really exists then the facts would be upfront and science would be able to prove them because science makes the world go round. If I put Jesus as test subject b and God as test subject J then I added some NaCl2 then the facts don't line up in the correct order as science states in area code 836-2x4(bxt) negative-alpha. If you were correct Mary should have appeared on a bicycle with Gabriel running after her. So since this didn't happen when I tested the hypothesis, I got a grotesque head, which you would tell me is John the baptist, but I don't believe that.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

Have you not read the first post and other posts? Science is based off of theories and laws, none of which are 100% true or false. Something may be accepted as a fact, such as evolution among the biological scientist community, however, it is still a theory regardless of how you view it. So, you wanting facts shows a) you haven't read any of the previous posts, b) you want evidence for something that requires no evidence and c) you fail to understand that science is not based off of solid facts, which is something that you are demanding.

xHolyValorx: Having no emotions is a good thing as there are no stupid things to obscure your vision of what there is, proper reasoning and how to achieve something. Also, how can you tell from these few statements that it is written as though there is no emotion?

Unfortunately, you've already jumped the gun by stating that god doesn't exist. This in itself requires some evidence and reasoning, which you have failed to provide. So, before you say that you cannot disprove that something does not exist, you must prove that said thing does not exist. Then, you can prove that you cannot disprove that said thing does not exist.

YourNightMare: Are you saying the Human Beings are just mammals? We're just lifeforms with no emotions with no personality? Having no emotion in life is a negative side effect of anyone, especially people with no faith. When I say faith, I don't mean people who believe in God. I mean people with faith in nothing, not science, themselves, Confucius, or Darwin.

People need to feel. And when people don't feel, that means something is wrong.

I don't think there's a strong chance that all of them were writing with belief and emotion at the same time.

At least she gives a higher belief a chance. I admire when people call themselves agnostics, that means that the world still believes something.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

If you're referring to me then I assure you I wrote it with a great deal of emotion, I would get very heated over the debate. There is just no need to make my point less coherent by throwing unecessary emotions into the face of the person I'm trying to explain things too. I "have faith" in a great deal of things and I can't see anything in this thread that you can extrapolate "I am dead inside" from.
I mean what are you? Sigmund Freud or something? Being able to look at one sentence and decifer someone's whole emotional outlook, that's just amazing.

There is a huge difference between making sense and talking a jumble of nonsense words.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

No, i didn't say that at all. Allow me to quote myself because you seem to have read it then took off with it:

No where in here did I say that humans are life forms with no emotions and certainly never mentioned personality. Also, I never even commented that we were mammals or animals, so I don't know where you assumed that from.

People need to feel emotions of others. Feeling your own emotions allows one to be a depressed person and commit disgusting acts such as suicide. I consider it rather a great thing to have no emotions (except anger at times), not a disorder. It allows you to see things objectively. You can call it a disorder, I call it paradise.

Also, explain how you supposedly concluded that some had no emotions in their writing. I'm sure you could make psychoanalysts and psychodynamics thrilled. Share this wealth of knowledge.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

So how does someone prove something does not exist?

I used to be a happy christian too. Then my best friend, uncle, and my neighbor's 3 year old died within a week of each other. So buzz off because people have their reasons, anything written has 'feeling' attributed to it. Don't assume just because people believe in science they have no emotions.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

The same way someone would prove something does exist. If you're going to make those statements, then it requires proof and evidence. Otherwise it's simply garbage.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

I've been a Christian since I was probably 13. I'm not a happy go lucky Christian. I believe people from the church actually look down upon my beliefs, as in I believe I'm one of the Christians that break the mold. I can assume anything I want, such as I'm assuming when you were a child, God was forced down your throat.

I hope a mod notices that was a rude comment and gives you a warning/infraction.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

Surely the only way to prove something doesn't exist is lack of proof that it does exist? Otherwise why not believe in unicorns or the tooth fairy?

I wasn't referring to you at all, Jack. If you wrote it with a great deal of emotion, then that's good. That's means you're not one of the crazy science driven people who believe science rules the Earth and there's no reason for emotion in humanity.

I can get very heated as well, but since I'm Christian, people might as well spit in my face, burn my bibles, beat me up, and I shouldn't turn into a violent raging monster. Even though I'm not fully for the "peace be with you" side of Jesus, him and I know how each other works.

We all took English since we were children. Hopefully a few people have the same "amazing" ability as to "read" and "decifer" as I have.

Funny. They just might have existed. Unicorns, that is.

And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with their bulls. (Isaiah 34:7)

And as I was considering, behold, a he-goat came from the west over the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes. (Daniel 8:5)

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

I mean unicorns as the mythical fairy creatures with supernatural powers that put a curse on you if you kill them.

Anyway, forgive me if I don't value the bible as a great source of evidence for unicorns. Also, it doesn't literally mean unicorn in those passages, it is simply the bad translation of the hebrew word "Re’em" which referred to a wild, un-tamable animal of great strength and agility, with a mighty horn or horns.
The translators of the Authorized King James Version of the Bible employed unicorn to translate re'em, providing a recognizable animal that was proverbial for its un-tamable nature.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

Aren't we on topic o.O I think so.


You're not wrong if you don't value the bible as a great source. It's my foundation, but that doesn't mean it has to be yours. And by the way, I believe that science and faith go hand-in-hand. I find it fascinating how God uses pattern and created all of this. If you don't believe that, you don't have to.

I said they might have existed. I didn't say they did :rolleyes: Hey it could be right. Maybe unicorns could exist. In physical appearance, it might be possible.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

And I never said they didn't. I just said that the evidence you put forth as evidence for unicorns was incorrect :rolleyes:. Though obviously the fact that I don't believe unicorns existed, except perhaps as a short lived genetic mutation probably in the goat family (I seem to remember a news article about a goat born with one horn in spain a few years back but it died rather quickly, so I'd assume there have been others), is evident in my last post.

In order to clarify, I do not think that there has ever been a species of horse with a single horn upon it's forehead with any magical powers or properties.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

My dad is atheist and my mom is a fundy christian. Honestly it didn't matter whether I was Hindu or Roman Catholic, because I would have dropped whatever beliefs I'd have. I think an extreme situation can make people realize things they would have never thought in a normal setting. Sometimes it makes people closer to 'god', and other times it tears them away from it all.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

buzz off meant 'don't say that', I thought it was pretty obvious. I don't think it was respectful for you to say that science isn't fueled by emotions. People are driven to find answers and giving scientific answers only shows it.

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