What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?

[InSovietRussiaORGASMGotU]

Originally Posted by R.K.

Then WHY DO YOU EVEN REPLY?? Is it just me, or are half of your "response" posts - "Well I don't feel like it! Oh you're just mean! Oh you won't consider my beliefs or are ridiculing them! Let's just drop it! I don't feel like it. Or I'm busy! Or well we disagree so let's drop all of this, it's pointless"



Right... because one side is making supernatural untestable claims about invisible Magic men in the skies & then going "You can't prove it doesn't exist! So check mate!"

The definition of this Thing we are supposed to prove is so vague & also untestable. Before it was "God is making storms/throwing lightning & sitting in the clouds" (& etc claims, that were actually testable... at least to us now & guess what? No magic man there!)
Then the claims about God start moving further & further as more & more things are explained through naturalistic means & do not require some divine intervention to happen. The so called God of the gaps: we don't know smth - thus "GODDIDIT"!
These gaps of lack of knowledge are constantly being filled & less & less space is left for the supernatural.

LOL this about sums up how I feel about this.

[Gram Negative]

Originally Posted by suniesha

You're going to turn it around if I answer, 'cause you wanna prove a point. And guess what I'm not dealing with this today.. So whatever.

Answer my question. Do you think Christian Scientists are right when it comes to medical care?

[Katieeee]

Guys, be respectful and stay on topic.

Please and thank you :]

[Algernon]

Originally Posted by Katieeee

Guys, be respectful and stay on topic.

Please and thank you :]

Exactly. Thank you very much

[Algernon]

I think that Atheists question us Christians so much in trying to make us prove that God does exist, that it's their turn to try and prove to us that he doesn't exist. And I don't want to hear this nonsense about "Oh, you can't prove something that doesn't exist" I'm not asking you to prove he does exist, I'm asking you to prove he doesn't exist.

Because you can't. Face it.

[Acheron]

Originally Posted by xHolyValorx

I think that Atheists question us Christians so much in trying to make us prove that God does exist, that it's their turn to try and prove to us that he doesn't exist. And I don't want to hear this nonsense about "Oh, you can't prove something that doesn't exist" I'm not asking you to prove he does exist, I'm asking you to prove he doesn't exist.

Because you can't. Face it.

Of course we can't. This is what pretty much every atheist on this forum has been saying time and time again, although the theists seem to have ignored us. I'll rehash it for your benefit. Proving the non-existence of anything, including God, is logically impossible. And no, the burden of proof doesn't just magically switch because you want it to: in any system of logical debate those making a claim need to provide evidence to support it, something that theists have so far failed to do.

[Algernon]

Originally Posted by Acheron

Of course we can't. This is what pretty much every atheist on this forum has been saying time and time again, although the theists seem to have ignored us. I'll rehash it for your benefit. Proving the non-existence of anything, including God, is logically impossible. And no, the burden of proof doesn't just magically switch because you want it to: in any system of logical debate those making a claim need to provide evidence to support it, something that theists have so far failed to do.

See? I made an example. Doesn't it pressure, irritate, and put you down when you believe in something, but you can't prove it. Then people come along blah blah blah and here comes the fire. Some people are of faith, and then there are people of science (Then a few of both such as myself) Everyone believes in something different, we can't prove God exists, and you can't prove that he doesn't exist. How many scientists out in the world believe in the existence of a God?

[I ♥ Jehovah Shalom!]

No, sometimes I do respond with something else.. I'm trying to get this whole think/write thing down pact.. Thats all so I'm replying as much as possible... Maybe its just this thread.

[InSovietRussiaORGASMGotU]

Originally Posted by xHolyValorx

I think that Atheists question us Christians so much in trying to make us prove that God does exist, that it's their turn to try and prove to us that he doesn't exist. And I don't want to hear this nonsense about "Oh, you can't prove something that doesn't exist" I'm not asking you to prove he does exist, I'm asking you to prove he doesn't exist.

Because you can't. Face it.

*sigh*... I'll say it yet again... Burden of Proof falls on the theists. If you want atheists to prove god doesn't exist, then you theists must prove he exists in the first place so that the debate can take place. And you cannot he exists either.

Originally Posted by xHolyValorx

See? I made an example. Doesn't it pressure, irritate, and put you down when you believe in something, but you can't prove it. Then people come along blah blah blah and here comes the fire. Some people are of faith, and then there are people of science (Then a few of both such as myself) Everyone believes in something different, we can't prove God exists, and you can't prove that he doesn't exist. How many scientists out in the world believe in the existence of a God?

I go with evolution and that I can provide actual evidence for. I fail to see the relevance of you asking how many scientists believe in god. Might as well ask how many cashiers don't believe in god, it's just as meaningless.

What example is it that you made? Is it that atheists want you to prove your side of the claim, which would be very reasonable if not demanded in every other debate?

[thebigmole]

Holly you really don't get it do you? By asking atheist to prove that God doesn't exist you are saying that as long as there is no proof that something doesn't exist everyone should believe in it. So as long as there's no proof that the monsters under my bed don't exist then I should believe in them without any proof that they do exist. That just doesn't make any sense. Or how about this, it's not a person's job to prove that they didn't commit a crime, it's the State's job to prove that they did. You can't put someone in jail simply because they can't prove they didn't do something if you have no proof that they did do it. Is any of this getting through?

[Algernon]

Originally Posted by thebigmole

Holly you really don't get it do you? By asking atheist to prove that God doesn't exist you are saying that as long as there is no proof that something doesn't exist everyone should believe in it. So as long as there's no proof that the monsters under my bed don't exist then I should believe in them without any proof that they do exist. That just doesn't make any sense. Or how about this, it's not a person's job to prove that they didn't commit a crime, it's the State's job to prove that they did. You can't put someone in jail simply because they can't prove they didn't do something if you have no proof that they did do it. Is any of this getting through?

"I'm saying that as long as there is no proof that something doesn't exist everyone should believe in it."

Never said that, and it doesn't make sense. thebigmole, you really don't get it do you? No. My point is that you should stop trying to tell the people who believe in God what to believe. If we believe in God, there's nothing you can do about it. So stop trying to make us prove that there is a god, when you yourself cannot prove that there is one. Got it? You sure? Ok.. Ok. Just making sure.

[Algernon]

Originally Posted by thebigmole

Holly you really don't get it do you? By asking atheist to prove that God doesn't exist you are saying that as long as there is no proof that something doesn't exist everyone should believe in it. So as long as there's no proof that the monsters under my bed don't exist then I should believe in them without any proof that they do exist. That just doesn't make any sense. Or how about this, it's not a person's job to prove that they didn't commit a crime, it's the State's job to prove that they did. You can't put someone in jail simply because they can't prove they didn't do something if you have no proof that they did do it. Is any of this getting through?

Oh. And I believe in science as well, if you're read any of my posts.

[Grizabella]

Originally Posted by xHolyValorx

"I'm saying that as long as there is no proof that something doesn't exist everyone should believe in it."

Never said that, and it doesn't make sense. thebigmole, you really don't get it do you? No. My point is that you should stop trying to tell the people who believe in God what to believe. If we believe in God, there's nothing you can do about it. So stop trying to make us prove that there is a god, when you yourself cannot prove that there is one. Got it? You sure? Ok.. Ok. Just making sure.

The problem is not that you or any other religious person believes in a god. The problem arises when religious people insist on trying to force their beliefs in an unsubstantiated claims into places they don't belong, like science classrooms or our government.

For example, if Christians didn't constantly try to fight that the creation theory is an acceptable scientific argument against creation, stopped trying to force religious material into science classes, and stopped slinging unsubstantiated claims about evolution around, scientists and atheists might not be so insistent on them providing evidence of God's existence. And if they stop trying to fight laws like gay marriage, based only on what this god tells them, we also might be more accepting.

[Algernon]

Originally Posted by Grizabella

The problem is not that you or any other religious person believes in a god. The problem arises when religious people insist on trying to force their beliefs in an unsubstantiated claims into places they don't belong, like science classrooms or our government.

For example, if Christians didn't constantly try to fight that the creation theory is an acceptable scientific argument against creation, stopped trying to force religious material into science classes, and stopped slinging unsubstantiated claims about evolution around, scientists and atheists might not be so insistent on them providing evidence of God's existence. And if they stop trying to fight laws like gay marriage, based only on what this god tells them, we also might be more accepting.

But you can't put all Christians in the same category, can you? I apologize if you view Christianity that way, because trust me. Even the Christians get religion shoved down their throats by others.

The only thing I expect from people is that they have looked at all possibilities before they Christianity. I admire an atheist that has read the bible and discarded it above an atheist who knows nothing and still calls himself/herself an atheist when they haven't looked around. Do you get what I'm saying?

I don't want to get you to be a Christian, that's one of the last things on my mind. I mean, if I did have a goal for any of you, it would be to study and possibly become an agnostic. Will I ask you to come to church with me? Maybe. If you say no, will I be offended? No.

I don't constantly fight that creation is the way things are. I know that something had to be created because you cannot create something from nothing. But then we have scientific proof that evolution is real. You have a believer here that says that the scientific community is correct. Isn't that enough for you? Couldn't you just respect that, and try and see maybe we could be right as well?

[Grizabella]

Yes, that is enough for me, and if you personally don't insist on using your belief in God for some personal agenda, then there is no problem. But there are Christians who do, and that is always where the conflict begins.

[Algernon]

Originally Posted by Grizabella

Yes, that is enough for me, and if you personally don't insist on using your belief in God for some personal agenda, then there is no problem. But there are Christians who do, and that is always where the conflict begins.

And again, I know what you mean. I wasn't always a church girl. There are the Christians who do, lots of them. Conflict will probably always be there, just try not to judge a Christian before you talk to them. You never know.

[I ♥ Jehovah Shalom!]

Originally Posted by YourNightmare

LOL this about sums up how I feel about this.

I have the right to answer, just alot of times I already know what people are going to say, and there's no real reason to repeat or re-type what I already said...

[I ♥ Jehovah Shalom!]

Originally Posted by Gram Negative

Answer my question. Do you think Christian Scientists are right when it comes to medical care?

No, I personally think that people should get help if you need it, especially for cancer or depression. Etc, there's no reason to feel bad about getting help, and I think they should get help if they really need it..
Does that answer you're question completely or is there anything else you wanna ask?

[thebigmole]

Originally Posted by xHolyValorx

"I'm saying that as long as there is no proof that something doesn't exist everyone should believe in it."

Never said that, and it doesn't make sense. thebigmole, you really don't get it do you? No. My point is that you should stop trying to tell the people who believe in God what to believe. If we believe in God, there's nothing you can do about it. So stop trying to make us prove that there is a god, when you yourself cannot prove that there is one. Got it? You sure? Ok.. Ok. Just making sure.

I simply meant it is what you seem to be implying, at the very least it's how your posts are coming off.

I don't recall ever once saying to anyone to prove the existence of God. This would be out of character for me for several reasons. First I believe that some people need to believe in God or any higher power to get by in life and that's perfectly fine. Second I actually don't care if God exists or not, God could come down to me and say hey look I exist and I still wouldn't follow his narrow minded and discriminatory rules.

Also I never once said anything in my posts about science and I don't really think it matters if you believe in science or not, a lot of Christians do.

[InSovietRussiaORGASMGotU]

Originally Posted by xHolyValorx

"I'm saying that as long as there is no proof that something doesn't exist everyone should believe in it."

Never said that, and it doesn't make sense. thebigmole, you really don't get it do you? No. My point is that you should stop trying to tell the people who believe in God what to believe. If we believe in God, there's nothing you can do about it. So stop trying to make us prove that there is a god, when you yourself cannot prove that there is one. Got it? You sure? Ok.. Ok. Just making sure.

If a Christian wants someone else to disprove god's existence, then they must prove god's existence. If they're not debating with someone then it really doesn't matter on the amount of proof/disproof. If you don't want people to tell you to prove god exists, then there's a really simple solution: quit telling people to disprove it.

suniesha: I never said you don't have the right to answer. You can say the same thing, word-for-word, 10 times if you want to and you're still allowed. No, you don't know what people on here will say. You can give a guess but you cannot know, as the only possible way for that is if you could see in the future. However, if you don't have anything mature or relevant to say, then why bother saying it?

[Khadra]

I'm still waiting for one of you theists to disprove leprechauns.

[InSovietRussiaORGASMGotU]

Unfortunately, the ones who go with the theory of evolution actually do have scientific proof.

[Gram Negative]

Originally Posted by suniesha

No, I personally think that people should get help if you need it, especially for cancer or depression. Etc, there's no reason to feel bad about getting help, and I think they should get help if they really need it..
Does that answer you're question completely or is there anything else you wanna ask?

Then you are contradicting yourself because for Christian Scientists that is their religion, that is their TRUTH. They feel bad about it about it is their truth that they do not need medicine, all they need is prayer.

[Rican Roll]

Originally Posted by TigerTank77

Also, inb4 teapot.

Too late, I brought up Russell's teapot awhile ago. >P

[I ♥ Jehovah Shalom!]

Because I'm not a christian Scientist, thats why I believe it what I said. I personally don't think anyone should be turned down for what they believe.

[thebigmole]

Originally Posted by suniesha

Because I'm not a christian Scientist, thats why I believe it what I said. I personally don't think anyone should be turned down for what they believe.

Really? Hitler believed that the termination of thousands of Jews and others that were different than him was right and justified and that it was his duty to God. So we shouldn't turn him down for his beliefs.

[Gram Negative]

Originally Posted by suniesha

Because I'm not a christian Scientist, thats why I believe it what I said. I personally don't think anyone should be turned down for what they believe.

Who are you to say that their truth is wrong?

[I ♥ Jehovah Shalom!]

Originally Posted by Gram Negative

Who are you to say that their truth is wrong?

I odn't mean it like that, I mean it in a way that I don't think that you should turn down medical care. You can take it anyway, and I can say that whether it has to do with a religion or not. Because I think that. It's nothing against them.

[Gram Negative]

Originally Posted by suniesha

I odn't mean it like that, I mean it in a way that I don't think that you should turn down medical care. You can take it anyway, and I can say that whether it has to do with a religion or not. Because I think that. It's nothing against them.

But it's their beliefs, it is their truth. When doctors take their kids away they are invading their homes, their privacy.

And it has everything to do with religion. What makes their religion wrong and yours right? Do you think doctors are right to take custody of their kids?

If someone says that your belief in Jesus is a lie, that all that stuff about God is bs, would that be something "against you"?

[Double X]

I'm telling people what I think about religion because I have annoying bible people, even in liberal Massachusetts, coming and knocking on my door asking 'do you have a relationship with HIM?'.

And here is my best 'proof' against god, although it is more simple reasoning than hardcore facts.

Religion has tried to explain things they don't understand. Look at early religions, like Greco/Roman gods, Native American gods, Judaism, etc. However, as science advances, religion has been proven to be wrong on many occasions.

In fact, this has been consistent for quite awhile. Doesn't it seem probable that this trend will continue until religion has been reduced to a mere quasi-agnosticism? What happens when we find an elixir for eternal life (hopefully not), or a sci-fi esque time machine? When science can truly disprove every real fact all religions has? When we can explain that there is no connection to the physical world and this 'spiritual' world?

That's my best shot at disproving it, simple logic.

[I ♥ Jehovah Shalom!]

Originally Posted by Gram Negative

But it's their beliefs, it is their truth. When doctors take their kids away they are invading their homes, their privacy.

And it has everything to do with religion. What makes their religion wrong and yours right? Do you think doctors are right to take custody of their kids?

If someone says that your belief in Jesus is a lie, that all that stuff about God is bs, would that be something "against you"?

I see what you're saying and I understand what you mean. I know what I mean, I just can't phrase it correctly.

[wtp]

There is no proof for either side.