scientology, religion, cult, or scam?

[newbie552]

what are your views on scientology?

I've never thought about it till this week when I had to do a school project on it and it turns out to be very contrversial. It was founded in 1953 by L. Ron Hubbard and is increasingly gaining new members like Tom Cruise.

It has harmed alot of people, but then again most relgions have one way or another.

In many countries it's called a cult and judging by the way it makes you pay, it's kinda like a scam (my opinion anyways)

what are your views on it?

[Blackwing]

Cult and Scam.

[TibbySkye]

Tom Cruise isn't new, he's made that known. Will Smith is somewhat new to it.
I'm open minded and I've heard speakers. It does sound sort of cultish to me. At the same time, some things make sense but it seems like more of a cult.

[msbunnykins]

I am completely appauled by Scientology, and don't consider it to be a religion at all, but a cult and a major scam.

[Acheron]

Religion, cult, or scam? How about "all of the above"? I mean, the whole thing was set up as a money-making ego trip for L. Ron Hubbard, probably because no-one liked his science fiction books.

[Hyper Sonic]

Well let's see:

It projects a highly, highly implausible scenario of creation as absolute truth
It accepts the killing of non-believers with no internal punishment
It believes that intangible things live inside everyone
It thinks itself superior to all other beliefs

The answer is obvious - it's a religion

[Tinkerbell91]

Cult && Scam
I'm not sure how many of you might've heard about John Travolta's son, Jett?
He was epileptic, and had at least two Grand Mal seisures a week- for anybody who doesn't pay money to be part of said "religion" Scientology, they would be on epilepsy medication for it
Jett was not, and he had serious seisures - his "nanny" had no childcare or medical qualifications at all!
Jett was 16, and many believe he also suffered from Autism, although Scientology prefers not to believe in such a thing!!
He was given vitamins and minerals to "control" his fits- it clearly didn't work, he died last week!
Many other Scientologists have died due to their disbelief in modern medicine!
I find it appalling that people pay to be told not to take medication that could save your life!
I think its a cult and a scam!

[Lizzie]

Let me just put this out there for everyone to see. Whoever does not follow the forum rules will receive infractions.

Originally Posted by Religion and Spirituality, Science and Philosophy Forum Rules.

If a user has respectfully started a thread on Christianity, Judaism, Satanism or any other religion that you personally don't agree with, do NOT reply to the thread stating that they're wrong, condemning them to hell, etc. If you can respectfully state reasons for disagreeing, you may do so. Otherwise, please bite your tongue and don't say anything at all.

[Adean]

The doctrine itself is not that strange, it's just uncommon. Seriously, think about the creation stories of other religions or just some story in general.

It's sort of amusing that they deny it, yet claim the handwritten OT VII account is copyright.

You do have to wonder about the way they deal with SPs and the fair game doctrine. Then the whole issue of infiltrating the IRS. Oh, and the cost to move up in ranks is horrible. The Sea Org seams a bit questionable. Very little health care, low pay, very few days off. Then the psychology and psychiatry hatred just seems a little bit overkill.

Freezone it. Granted, some freezoners aren't exactly nice, but then any parting from the main church will give mix results. Not all Christian churches that are nondenominational are good.

[Marionette.]

Right, this is my kind of topic.
I think its a religion. Actually, I don't know what I think it is.
But I know what I think of it.
Most of my family from my mums side,
3 aunties, 2 uncles and all their wives/husbands/boy-girlfriends and even kids, are Scientologists. And then there's their friends etc...

I have been to LRH's 'house' in east grinstead, where many courses and events are held today and met so many scientologists.

It seems to have changed their veiws and deep down personality.
But all in all they're more or less the same people.

There's been a few times they've tried to get me to go 'on course' but I've always been reluctant too. Can't really say why, just not very into it.

However, I know there are many things that they have learnt through scientology and alot of it does make sense, it's just the way they try to brand it into it's 'followers'.
My auntie helped someone who was having an epileptic fit in the street before the paramedics got there due to something she learned from scientology.
It's not ALL bad.
The whole concept is wrong, most of what is taught is common sense but been altered and 'reworded' for their benefits. This way created a 'cult-like' group.

Scientologists are not bad people, it's the teachings.
I feel it's right to say though, my mum hates it and everything connecting to it.

[Adean]

What did she do to help the person with epilepsy?

[Marionette.]

Regained her consciousness using something called a touch assist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touch_assist

The purpose of a Touch Assist is to reestablish communication with injured or ill body parts. It brings the person’s attention to the injured or affected body areas. This is done by repetitively touching the ill or injured person’s body and putting him into communication with the injury. His communication with it brings about recovery. The technique is based on the principle that the way to heal anything or remedy anything is to put somebody into communication with it.

[Grizabella]

It certainly fits several psychological criteria for a cult:

1. People are put in physically or emotionally distressing situations;
2. Their problems are reduced to one simple explanation, which is repeatedly emphasized;
3. They receive unconditional love, acceptance, and attention from a charismatic leader;
4. They get a new identity based on the group;
5. They are subject to entrapment (isolation from friends, relatives, and the mainstream culture) and their access to information is severely controlled

[Dream]

I don't like it or trust it.

[CoffeeAddict]

I think it's a cult/scam and a load of crap. But that's just my point of view...

[Jaymz404]

You just have to research the man who created Scientology. He wrote science fiction before hand... his books failed and then he thought a good money maker would be religion.

It's a cult and its a plague upon this world.

[Tinkerbell91]

I'm all for each to their own, and for those that follow it, well thats up to them
As for the whole epilepsy thing, the touch-assist... my sister is epileptic, so that might come in handy if she has a fit at any point- god forbid she does though!!!!
But, I'm not sure if it'd really work?! :s
Anyways, each to their own I guess

xx

[Adean]

I am wary of the claims of touch assist and I am trying to find information about it. It's hard because there just seems to be a lot of anecdotal evidence, which is not evidence.

[TheBabyEater]

I saw on tv, don't remember where and when, but someone said.
"What is more believable, aliens comeing to this planet from a place we can prove exists (space) or a man with unbelievable powers created this that we cannot prove exists?"

It was funny. I don't believe it but some people might. It's their choice really... Other religions are overwhelming our world but that doesn't mean theyre wrong or a scam.

[Lorelei]

"All of the above" is my opinion, but I'm not an expert by any means. (And that's how I feel about a lot of religions.)

Also, I thought Will Smith was "looking into scientology" but not part of the church yet.

[R.K.]

Cult and Scam.

Ditto.

Originally Posted by TibbySkye

Tom Cruise isn't new, he's made that known. Will Smith is somewhat new to it. .

WHAT??? No!!! He's one of my fave actors! #$REW##@~!!!

[Lorelei]

Originally Posted by R.K.

WHAT??? No!!! He's one of my fave actors! #$REW##@~!!!

I know how you feel. I don't care about Tom Cruise, but Will Smith?? I grew up watching Fresh Prince!

[Vessol]

Hold onto your breeches.

Smith has said he has studied multiple religions including Scientology and he has said many complimentary things about Scientology and other faiths. He and his wife are close friends of prominent Scientologists Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes, which has led to rumors that Smith is also a Scientologist. Although Smith has said, "I just think a lot of the ideas in Scientology are brilliant and revolutionary and non-religious."[26][27] and, "Ninety-eight percent of the principles in Scientology are identical to the principles of the Bible.... I don't think that because the word someone uses for spirit is 'thetan' that the definition becomes any different",[28] he has denied having joined the Scientology Church, saying "I am a Christian. I am a student of all religions, and I respect all people and all paths."[29]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_Smith#Personal_life

[R.K.]

How interesting, I never percieve my "idols" as somebody religious or affiliating with a religion or any other supernatural beliefs. But when they do, it's always such a shock.

[Lorelei]

Smith has said he has studied multiple religions including Scientology and he has said many complimentary things about Scientology and other faiths. He and his wife are close friends of prominent Scientologists Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes, which has led to rumors that Smith is also a Scientologist. Although Smith has said, "I just think a lot of the ideas in Scientology are brilliant and revolutionary and non-religious."[26][27] and, "Ninety-eight percent of the principles in Scientology are identical to the principles of the Bible.... I don't think that because the word someone uses for spirit is 'thetan' that the definition becomes any different",[28] he has denied having joined the Scientology Church, saying "I am a Christian. I am a student of all religions, and I respect all people and all paths."

Okay, phew. That's what I originally thought. Got scared for a second there. [/offtopic]

[glamourkills_]

Scientology truly frightens me. It's seems like one big conspiracy to me. I don't trust it.

No one should have to pay to want to be a part of their faith, either. Then again, doesn't Catholicism do something sort of like that?

Anyway, I don't think it should be considered a religion. I mean, seriously, aliens taking over our souls? It was created by a down-and-out science fiction writer.

[Lorelei]

Originally Posted by glamourkills_

Scientology truly frightens me. It's seems like one big conspiracy to me. I don't trust it.

No one should have to pay to want to be a part of their faith, either. Then again, doesn't Catholicism do something sort of like that?

Anyway, I don't think it should be considered a religion. I mean, seriously, aliens taking over our souls? It was created by a down-and-out science fiction writer.

Almost every religion I know of asks for money in one form or another. Scientology is just more adamant about it.

[InSovietRussiaORGASMGotU]

Originally Posted by Grizabella

It certainly fits several psychological criteria for a cult:

1. People are put in physically or emotionally distressing situations;
2. Their problems are reduced to one simple explanation, which is repeatedly emphasized;
3. They receive unconditional love, acceptance, and attention from a charismatic leader;
4. They get a new identity based on the group;
5. They are subject to entrapment (isolation from friends, relatives, and the mainstream culture) and their access to information is severely controlled

Just reading down the criteria, so does christianity (#5 doesn't occur in all places).

I say it's a religion, and in part of being a religion, it generates money.

[Lorelei]

Most people don't seem to know what the word "cult" really means.

According to Webster's Collegiate Dictionary:

cult
1: formal religious veneration: WORSHIP
2: a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also: its body of adherents
3: a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also: its body of adherents
4: a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator
5 a: great devotion to a person, idea, or thing; esp: such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad b: a usu. small circle of persons united by devotion or allegiance to an artistic or intellectual movement or figure

So basically if you belong to any religion, movement, or fan base, you are in a cult. Cult is not a dirty word, it's just been given bad connotations.

[Oiseau the Little Bird!]

Scientology has been big news since last year -- The internet group Anonymous started protesting at all the major locations across the globe. This is nothing to just laugh at; I don't think anyone would go through so much trouble to protest something that isn't completely dangerous. Then again, it's Anonymous. :/

http://www.exscientologykids.com/

I came across this site about 5 months ago, and this has pretty much settled my opinion about Scientology. Pretty much, it's a site made by the kids of Scientologist origin, and everything they were put through. It's serious business, I'm afraid. :[

[I ♥ Jehovah Shalom!]

Idk if you can call is a religion. Scientology is for people who believe in the power of them self and the world really.. All I know, (even if I'm wrong about what it is exactly) is I don't think it should really have a church.

[darkinnocenteyes]

Scientology is a very well put together scam.
They ruin the lives of anyone who gets in their way.
They have a seperate church for celebrity scientologists.
Anyone who speaks out ageanst them is harrassed.
What about operation snow white?
...Lisa McPhearson...
Look her up.
they took over the cult awarenes network... CAN...
here's a link for some of the things they've done.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCGP-0545EU

[Eniddd]

personally, the way they treat pregnant women during labour makes me sick
then again, its not the only faith that treats members of the community like dirt xx

[R.K.]

Originally Posted by Lel :)

personally, the way they treat pregnant women during labour makes me sick
then again, its not the only faith that treats members of the community like dirt xx

How??
I never heard this one yet.

[Eniddd]

well this could be complete bull, but what i heard is that women arent allowed drugs
(ok fine, if you wanna go without, go without)
but they aren't allowed to make any noise during labour whatsoever
as they believe the child will be traumatised
id like to see them push a baby out of their non-existant wombs without screaming

[R.K.]

Originally Posted by Lel :)

well this could be complete bull, but what i heard is that women arent allowed drugs
(ok fine, if you wanna go without, go without)
but they aren't allowed to make any noise during labour whatsoever
as they believe the child will be traumatised <IMG class=inlineimg title=">.
id like to see them push a baby out of their non-existant wombs without screaming

Um... could I get a source for that?

[Eniddd]

i'll have a look, its probably untrue, just propaganda, just whati heard
edit, yup just looked into it, sorry for misleading people
http://altreligion.about.com/od/scie...lent_birth.htm
if you want to read more **

[Lorelei]

Originally Posted by suniesha

Idk if you can call is a religion. Scientology is for people who believe in the power of them self and the world really.. All I know, (even if I'm wrong about what it is exactly) is I don't think it should really have a church.

To answer this, I once again pull out my trusty dictionary:

religion
1 a (1): the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance b : the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of ~>
2: a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness
4: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

From this, we can deduce that Scientology is a religion, since it fills at least one of these definitions. To continue:

church
1: a building for public and esp. Christian worship
2: the clergy or officialdom of a religious body
3: a body or organization of religious believers: as a: the whole body of Christians b: Denomination c: Congregation
4: a public divine worship <goes to ~ every Sunday>
5: the clerical profession <considered the ~ as a possible career>

They are in fact, "a body or organization of religious believers," as evidenced from the definition of the word religion. This automatically makes them a type of church.

[Adean]

Go read OT VII (or is it OT VIII) documents. Handwritten by LRH. It's a religion.

[WhySoSerious?]

It's the same as most other religion in my eyes, just less popular than say.... Christianity?