Religion and Atheism.

[krstnrcksbtt]

Everyone argues so much about those two things. I don't quite get it.
I mean, everyone has their own personal thought or opinion. You can
choose to believe whatever you want. So why is there so much hostility?
Yes, Athiests do bash on religion a lot, but people who believe in a relgion
bash on them just as much.
I will be the first to admit, when I was very absorbed by my church, I was
guilty of bashing on Athiests. But why? When I looked back it just seemed
silly. I mean, not one, Athiest person ever said anything to me other than
the fact that they were Athiest.
I do believe in God, and if they don't, what does it really matter? I've
decided that it's not really that important to argue over. I'm always up for
a fun and light-hearted debate, but not this.
I know that this is just my personal opinion. I know that some of you
won't agree with me and that's ok. Can't it be the same for our religious
views?

[Flying_Spirit]

Originally Posted by krstnrcksbtt

Everyone argues so much about those two things. I don't quite get it.
I mean, everyone has their own personal thought or opinion. You can
choose to believe whatever you want. So why is there so much hostility?

I think that a huge factor in this is that neither side can prove that they are unequivocally one hundred percent right. However both sides like to point out holes in each others arguments. It is not so much hostility but a division of opinions and a heated debate.

This is for most people the meaning of life, whether we are given life by God and prosper by his hand or whether as nihilists believe we make our own meaning in life, we give ourselves our own purpose. I feel myself that reality is simply perception so I will debate against religion but I have no true hostility towards religion. The only religious group I truly despise is WBC but I think that is like a 100% universally hated group.

Originally Posted by krstnrcksbtt

Yes, Athiests do bash on religion a lot, but people who believe in a relgion
bash on them just as much.

This is a debate forum and while people will get angry or annoyed there is no true bashing from what I could see. There is no bashing allowed within the forum and I think that this is a sensitivity issue on the part of debaters.

Yes people can bash certain athiests who are horribly rude and the same goes for religious people. However this is an individual case.

Originally Posted by krstnrcksbtt

I will be the first to admit, when I was very absorbed by my church, I was
guilty of bashing on Athiests. But why? When I looked back it just seemed
silly. I mean, not one, Athiest person ever said anything to me other than
the fact that they were Athiest.

This is where most bashing I have seen comes from people not thinking for themselves. Then again as far as I am concerned if someone is so brain washed that they will bash people for no reason other than others around them do it then I have no respect for them and it doesn't bother me.

Originally Posted by krstnrcksbtt

I do believe in God, and if they don't, what does it really matter? I've
decided that it's not really that important to argue over. I'm always up for
a fun and light-hearted debate, but not this.
I know that this is just my personal opinion. I know that some of you
won't agree with me and that's ok. Can't it be the same for our religious
views?

The whole reason for debating is to open your mind and the mind of others to other possibilities. It is not about arguing it is about learning and teaching. It is something we do as people to broaden our minds. Of course we all have our personal opinions however we should be secure enough to ignore trolls and be able to debate with others about the many possibilities on offer in this world.

[krstnrcksbtt]

Thank you for that

This is where most bashing I have seen comes from people not thinking for
themselves. Then again as far as I am concerned if someone is so brain washed that
they will bash people for no reason other than others around them do it then I have
no respect for them and it doesn't bother me.

I hope you read that I said I realized it was silly. I don't want any hard feelings about
this. I respect everyones belief. That had to have been at least 4 years ago. I
realized there was no point.
The only reason I bring up this subject is because there was a "bashing of religion"
once. I wasn't there to experience it, but someone the next night was bragging about
the "religion bashing party" they had. Everyone was getting so angry. I just wanted to know why people get so upset honestly.

[Flying_Spirit]

Originally Posted by krstnrcksbtt

I hope you read that I said I realized it was silly. I don't want any hard feelings about
this. I respect everyones belief. That had to have been at least 4 years ago. I
realized there was no point.
The only reason I bring up this subject is because there was a "bashing of religion"
once. I wasn't there to experience it, but someone the next night was bragging about
the "religion bashing party" they had. Everyone was getting so angry. I just wanted to know why people get so upset honestly.

My post wasn't really about you I mean people who are at that point and still doing it.

If people have a religion bashing party then they aren't worth being bothered by. That is probably one of the most immature things I have ever heard of.

[ertyuio]

In my opinion, "bashing" is just carelessly insulting a point of view out of anger or predisposition, but I don't consider it "bashing" if it's coupled with a logical argument in its defense. The same goes for the both the atheist and religious sides of this coin. If there's a valid logical point to be made that applies a negative attribute to the other side of the discussion, then it shouldn't be called bashing -- but I find it far too often, you're right.

I don't debate with people who are simply angry or intolerant and base their discussions on the insults that spawn from that. There's absolutely no benefit in it, for me. I debate so that I can learn the positions of people who may disagree with me, and so that I can show my position to others, in the most clear and logical way that in which I can. I may even try to persuade them if I find them to be open-minded individuals who are not completely swallowed by their religion's intolerance, but that's a very rare occurrence.

As to why people get so upset about others' opinions: well, from what I've gathered, religious people tend to get upset at atheism because the opposition contradicts their beliefs ("You don't believe in my God? You're going to hell."), and because religion is extremely sensitive to criticism. However, for me, personally, I get upset at religion because its influence over people infiltrates so many facets of the lives of everyone (i.e., influence over politicians who reject certain bills; tax exemptions; etc.) -- it annoys me how one belief system based on faith (belief without evidence) can end end up influencing the lives of those who do not have it. I don't think that there should be any government benefits specific to churches (or any other religious foundation for that matter), and it bothers me. I also get very annoyed by some of the beliefs that are inherent within many religions. But I make a point not to let my frustration's venting become points in a discussion.

Both atheists and the religious have the capacity to "bash" one another, and neither side is completely guilt free. However, like Sapphire_Wings said, I don't find it here too often at all -- there's very rarely a time in this forum when someone says something critical about religion or atheism without backing it up in some way.

[Xujhan]

I don't get up in arms just because I think another person is wrong. Everyone is wrong about all sorts of things; I don't see that as reson to get upset. What does make me stand up and argue is when I think that a person's wrong idea is also harmful to others. Religion falls within the category of things that I feel is harmful to others, so I argue against it. People do have the right to believe any silly thing they wish, of course, but they don't have the right to not have the idocy or the harm of their beliefs pointed out to them.

[Brandon]

I think there's so much hostility because both sides present the same arguments on a consistent basis and it doesn't really change anything. The only real evidence that we can come up with is through science; however, science still can't DISPROVE religion, but it can prove many other things. So all the arguments get repetitive and people get frustrated. At least, that's what I'm observing through religious debates.

[Age of Ignorance]

I just dislike it when others think their beliefs are fact. Not much else to it than that - yeah, I'm an atheist because I believe there is no God, but I believe that because no one can prove the existance or non-existance of that higher power, no one should tell me to do otherwise. It's pretty narrow-minded to say that my beliefs are the correct way of doing things - to each their own, I guess.

[dredear]

I am an Athiest, and whenever I talk to christians they tell me its impossible to be happy without god in your life. But ever since I stopped going to church, I've never been happier : ) So, It kinda pisses me off when christians think their better than athiests. :\

[Terry]

Originally Posted by krstnrcksbtt

Everyone argues so much about those two things. I don't quite get it.
I mean, everyone has their own personal thought or opinion. You can
choose to believe whatever you want. So why is there so much hostility?
Yes, Athiests do bash on religion a lot, but people who believe in a relgion
bash on them just as much.
I will be the first to admit, when I was very absorbed by my church, I was
guilty of bashing on Athiests. But why? When I looked back it just seemed
silly. I mean, not one, Athiest person ever said anything to me other than
the fact that they were Athiest.
I do believe in God, and if they don't, what does it really matter? I've
decided that it's not really that important to argue over. I'm always up for
a fun and light-hearted debate, but not this.
I know that this is just my personal opinion. I know that some of you
won't agree with me and that's ok. Can't it be the same for our religious
views?

I haven't read the rest of the thread, so sorry if I repeat some things, also not trying to bash anyone, but this is my personal view on things.

I personally am very against religion (no, I won't call some one out and insult them for being religious) due to how much bad that comes along with the good parts of religion. A vast majority of anti gay people use religion as an excuse to hide bigotry, and although I should be blaming the people and not the religion, there are just so many who are like this that I have developed somewhat of a bias. I've actually been told I would rot in hell and that I was an idiot for having "chosen" to be bisexual, on this very site! But discrimination aside, I hate religion because of lots of arbitrary and often pointless restrictions to human advancement (be it scientific or social). I just think that we would be so much farther ahead in a lot of things if it weren't for religion. But I don't get involved in religious arguments and don't go out of my way to explain why I think god doesn't exist, because there is really no point, seeing as how there are so many, and that if they aren't hurting anyone because of it, trying to convince them otherwise is just childish "I'M RIGHT YOU'RE WRONG" mentality.

One thing I WILL say is if some one tries to convince me otherwise, I will tell them their reasons/proofs are rubbish and that discounting everything that has much more proof than religion (i.e. evolution) is annoying seeing as how what their belief is based on nothing but simply assuming it's true (personal experiences don't count, because of placebo effect, just like pretending to give some one booze, who then actually act drunk).

Again sorry if I offended anyone, I was just giving some insight on why I think most atheists like to pick a fight with religious people. As I said I personally never get seriously involved in arguments and accept the fact people will believe in things I don't, wish more people did, gets rather irritating seeing religious arguments everywhere.

Edit: dredear's post reminded me, another reason why I think atheists tend to get annoyed at religious people is because a lot of people tend to act like they know some greater truth or immense secret to the universe by being religious, and tend to be a bit condescending towards atheists. But again the same can be said about atheists who accuse religious people of being delusional and judge them on that fact.

[OMFG!You'reActuallySmart!]

I'm an atheist and anti-theist. If a religious person wishes to engage in a debate or merely a conversation about religion, I'm likely to be against their religion (more so if I know enough of the religion) and don't believe in their god(s). With that said, if there is no debate or conversation from the other side, then I don't go at them because it would be hypocritical on my part as I don't like it when others do that to me. Generally, I don't insult someone for being religious but for those who are so deluded to the point they won't want to hear from the other side while being in a debate, then I do give a minor insult to the person. Most religious people aren't like this though so it rarely find myself doing this.

One of the things I truly dislike is arguments against science from a non-scientific view and it's clear the person doesn't really understand what the scientific theory is actually about. If they have a scientific argument, then I'm all ears regardless of their religion. As someone who has done research courses in biological evolution (although it's not my main area of study), I do dislike when non-scientific arguments are presented as facts because not only do they perpetuate nonsense, it also gives myself and researchers are kick in the nuts/ovaries.

The last thing that is more of a frustration than anything else is when the religious person refuses to acknowledge my arguments from their religious perspective. That is, when I debate with Christians, it's foolish for me to sometimes resort to science (depending on the topic). Naturally, I resort to the bible so we're on the same playing field yet so often I've had Christians dismissing parts of the bible when it suits them.

[drewisajaguar]

One thing that I think plays a role in why a believer would engage in this kind of conversation/debate/argument with a non-believer is that many religions instruct their followers to convert the unconverted and tell them that it is their right and responsibility to do so. As to why it usually ends up in an argument, there could be many explanations.

I've engaged in this kind of conversation with my mother on several occasions (she's a Christian and I'm an atheist) and she's told me that she gets defensive because she feels like I'm attacking her beliefs. I do my best to talk with as much respect as I can, but I tend to find myself questioning every argument she comes up with, so I would assume that's why she ends up feeling that way. I should also note that, as a Christian, she questions every argument I have as well, but I don't find myself becoming defensive, so take that to mean whatever you want it to mean. This example doesn't go for every situation of course, but it is one explanation I've encountered.

For myself, I must repeat QuantumModulus in saying that religion bothers me personally because one's religious beliefs tend to have an influence over the decisions they make, especially in regards to things such as politics. Many politicians cite their religious beliefs for the reasoning behind their support or opposition of a bill or law. When enough politicians who have the same religion come together, that religion tends to have a large influence over the bills that are passed and the laws that are established.

I also must repeat The Man And XX Master in saying that I find it rather annoying and pointless when one argues from a non-scientific standpoint as I have found most religious people often do.