@Atheists: Do you hate religion?

[Lugez]

This is from one Atheist to the rest. So don't worry. I don't feel like writing an essay so I'll keep it short.

Basically, I've met a few Atheists who just completely despise religion. They also think that people who follow it are just children and are completely delusional. It's as if religion is something evil organization or something.

I'm an Atheist who is completely open to religion and deeply respects other beliefs. I would never even think of "converting" someone to Atheism. Why? Because a person's passion for religion can actually help him/her in the long run, in my opinion. In the end, it doesn't matter if the belief is false or true.

If I had the all-power choice, I would keep religion within our society. But that's just me. What say the rest of you?

[Jesus Christ.]

I'm an atheist and I don't hate religion, I think it's stupid it, and I don't respect the religion but I will respect the people who follow the religion, unless they're being stupid...

[Doodle.]

I don't hate religion but I think it can be dangerous. A friend of mine is gay and he's Christian (so are his parents) this has drove him completely insane as he believes what he's feeling is wrong.

[The ANTI-Troll]

i despies religion i think its completelly stupid.. i also think alot of the followers are stupid from the way they act... specially when they try to force there views on others..

[Gaia]

I don't hate religion, I just don't understand it.
I have respect for everyone is religious, unless they are causing grief to other people. [note individuals, not the entire religion in most cases.]

[Maloo]

I respect people who are religious, but I think religion can have some really stupid beliefs. But to each his own.

[Jack]

I despise organised religion, and dislike religion in general. I do not dislike people for being religious, I hate the idea but not the people who believe it.

I also have a slight issue with totally respecting those who believe in religion as I think that in order to do so you must restrict your critical thinking substantially in that area. Although I'm talking more of first impressions, respect can be earned but it seldom is.

[Gingerbread Latte]

I wouldn't say I hate religion but I hate the effects it can have on people. Like the example Ceilidh said about her gay friend and the fact that plenty of wars have started just because of religious beliefs.

[Jocelyn.]

I just find religion very... primitive? I believe we got to the point we're at now from people one day looking at the stars and thinking they were gods... you know what I mean? That it eventually evolved into religions such as the Christian religion. It planted the idea of there being a possibility of a God. A way to explain how certain things happen in a time when there wasn't much we understood and couldn't explain (scientifically) as humans.

At this point, I think its a "do better because we know better" thing. To me personally, there are so many things that scream to me that a God doesn't exist. There is no possible way (without proof from "God" himself) that I could believe he does exist. I don't hate religion, I guess I mainly don't understand how people can honestly believe in it.

[Power Cosmic]

Originally Posted by ball&chain

I guess I mainly don't understand how people can honestly believe in it.

I just think no matter how lowly you think of people in general, they'll always surprise you by being slightly lower.

I despise religion, it causes so much pain and is responsible for stifling free thought to an unpresedented degree. It stands for the banishment of reason and critical thinking...and is just,...so...wrong.

That said, if people want to believe in a supernatural entity, whatever, that's up to them =/.

[Acheron]

Do I hate religion? Put it this way: if I could snap my fingers and turn everyone into an atheist, and religion into a historical relic, I'd do it without a moment's hesitation. I don't hate religious people, but religion has caused far too much human suffering for me to see it with anything but contempt.

[thebigmole]

I don't hate people for having beliefs, but I do HATE religion. I'm a very logical person and I don't find religion logical.

[Irinya]

I am a staunch atheist, and argue my case regularly.

Even so... I understand, respect, and even sympathize with religious people.

Let me try to explain it this way. At heart, I'm a scientist. Science is based on facts, on empirical evidence, on logic and reason. And those principles I hold closer to my heart than anything. But what is a fact? At some level, all of our facts have to be givens. If we try to break down our facts far enough, we run into the same problem we do when we try to prove the consistency of logic: there's simply no way to do it. (Lewis Carrol's What The Tortoise Said To Achilles is a nice demonstration of this.) I really don't understand those scientific atheists who despise religion because it takes so much on faith.

Science takes, if anything, even more on faith.

[Chromata]

I dislike religion itself and the bad things it causes, but I don't generally hate religious people. (I draw the line at when some of them start trying to convert other people.) I can half-understand why they believe what they believe; they want answers for the tough questions in life and religion gives them answers. However, I certainly don't agree with them.

[Flying_Spirit]

I dislike religious people who claim to be open and yet resort to tantrums to win a debate. I dislike people who blindly follow a religion or try to convert me. I do not dislike religion only those who say they're one thing and mean another. Greed and power starts war masked in a guise of religion. Religion is simply interpretation as is our whole world. As a nihilist I dislike people who say they're religious or athiest just cuz . . .

I however have admiration for those who follow their beliefs but do not try converting others. Some of the most intelligent people in history were religious, this pettiness existing from athiests towards religious people it irks me. Is your faith the new iq test, is believing in something childish? It's not, so why say it?

I have often seen people degrade someone for their religious beliefs when clearly that religious person is more clever and open. Maybe a quote might come to mind here. Don't judge a book by it's cover. Sadly I find I am ashamed of people like this as they give athiests a bad reputation.

I believe in schools religion should be a choice. Eradicating it is as bad as enforcing it. Otherwise you can take away someones most important thing in life.

I believe that before a person wishes to speak on subjects like this, they should first acquire the knowledge and acceptance necessary to do so.

[Xujhan]

I don't hate religious people, but learning that someone is religious will typically make me think a little less of someone. How much less depends on the beliefs. I don't believe I've ever met someone whose religious beliefs improved my opinion of them. That said, I'm still perfectly capable of liking and getting along with religious people, and I happily acknowledge that most religious people are completely harmless.

But I despise religion. From where I sit, it's one of the two biggest evils in the world (the other being greed). I don't even agree that religion has value in that it comforts people, and that's the closest to a good side that religion has. Like Acheron; if it were within my power to remove religion from the world I would.

[anony mouse.]

I like the idea of religion. But I'm far too logical for it to make any sort of sense to me, so I'm an atheist. :]

[OMFG!You'reActuallySmart!]

I'm one who is all for knowledge as well as rationality, practicality, logic and the law. To me, religion is a form of knowledge, no doubt about that but it's a form of knowledge where rationality, practicality, logic and sometimes even the law must be put aside to actually believe with some degree of devotion. I do say that all people are irrational, religious or not, but I do find that religion increases the irrationality. When someone tells me they are completely rational, I'm inclined to sing them a few words of "bullshit makes the grass grow green".

When someone tells me they are religious, I try to stay neutral on my perception of them but I do end up finding that my perception skews to be more negative because I think the religious person is going to be more irrational than your average non-religious person. I don't care for that because it hints to me that any attempt at a discussion with them likely isn't going to go anywhere. That said, some religious individuals are less irrational, about the same as non-religious individuals. Usually these people are not very devoted to their religion or they are able to put their religion aside and use rationality. I'm a person who looks at things with a scientific analytical, practical and rational view, and there are some religious people who are able to do this perfectly but they seem to be a minority. For these people, I don't mind their religious beliefs even if I do disagree with them.

Overall though, I despise it for the reasons mentioned above as well as it encourages asocial, anti-social, negative beliefs and reasoning. There are some prosocial positive beliefs and reasoning but I think they are often shrouded by the negative ones although this comes down to the particular religion in question.

[dr2005]

Has to be said as a religious person I'm finding this quite eye-opening, and I'm not sure whether it's in a good way. As this is a thread for atheists to comment in though, I'm just gonna sit back and not spoil the party.

[forfrosne]

Not religion in general no. Christianity: Yes. Islam: Yes.
But there are many 'religions' out there that are very interesting, and definitely have a positive effect on the world (Buddhism, Shintoism etc.)

[NonIndigenous]

I see myself as atheist. I don't exactly hate other religions... but I do hate how some people interpret them and go all extreme, and that gets under my skin. Just like politics. It's caused a lot of grief and conflict, but has also brought people together.

But thinking about it logically... a religion is a belief in something, whatever it is. Everyone has got to believe in something, no? If you don't consider yourself religious so to speak, there might be the ideologies of a political party you believe in, or something or someone you aspire to be that you believe in, even if you have never personally met them (like god in a way). If you don't believe in anything you see or experience then you are delusional (unless we really do live in a matrix), same way that you would be delusional if you're fanatical about your beliefs/religion, they are both extremes.

I've known two types of religious people in my life. Crazed religious people... who would go church morning afternoon and evening if they could, and take everything in the bible literaly, and some who simply live by the values of christianity. There's a balance in everything. I've maintaned good friendships with many people that consider themselves religious, so long as it doesn't run their life entirely, that every choice they make they are paranoid about god hitting them with thunderbolts. And actually on average they can be pretty decent people.

People will always have some beliefs, and those of similar beliefs tend to stick around each other, bird of feather flock together... . So some of you may say if you could get rid of religion you would... but it simply doesn't make sense. It is illogical. It's human nature to have beliefs in something.

But is religion itself illogical? Anything we don't understand is by definition illogical to us, so there are a lot of illogical things out there. Science describes what we do fully understand, or at least strive to understand given proven facts, whilst religion tries to describe and explain the illogical side of things, things we don't fully understand. To put it simply, religion itself can't be illogical.

People didn't know how the world begun ages ago... so they said it was created in 7 days. We now know it wasn't created in 7 days, and there are several theories as to how exactly our planet came about, but the story has stuck around and it will. It's part of the culture and was created to explain something that wasn't understood few hundred years ago.

I could go on... this is an infinite topic but I really need to do other things now.

[Jack]

But thinking about it logically... a religion is a belief in something, whatever it is.

Well, no, a religion is a belief in a deity or an afterlife (I do realise that isn't the greatest definition of religion, but my point stands). It is not just a belief in anything. Hence a belief in the ideology of the conservative party is not a religious belief, although I would consider it equally misguided.

Anything we don't understand is by definition illogical to us, so there are a lot of illogical things out there.

Again, not really. Simply because we don't understand something does not mean it is illogical. Logic and understanding are separate.

[lola jonson]

I don't hate reliogion or religious people I just don't believe in it and I respect people of all different religions and beleifs.

[NonIndigenous]

Originally Posted by Jack

Well, no, a religion is a belief in a deity or an afterlife (I do realise that isn't the greatest definition of religion, but my point stands). It is not just a belief in anything. Hence a belief in the ideology of the conservative party is not a religious belief, although I would consider it equally misguided.



Again, not really. Simply because we don't understand something does not mean it is illogical. Logic and understanding are separate.

Different people interpret the meaning of religion differently. I wasn't very good explaining that but it's also not easy to explain. To me religion means a belief in something, and that something can be almost anything. I do remember back in school during Religious Study lessons there being talk of some minor religion, which didn't place faith in any god or afterlife as such (although there are always variations), but somehow tried to descrive purpose in life and pre-life (i.e. what happens before you're born). It was weird yea... but it gives you a better idea of the variety of possible religions out there. A religion isn't something you can have patented not really.



And by saying that something we don't understand is illogical to us... I do mean it. Thruthfully, there's a reason for everything yes... so there's logic behind everything, that's a purely scientific way of looking at it, but at far as people are concerned we don't know everything and so don't know the logic behind some things. So as far as people are concerned some things remain illogical to us, simply because we don't understand them. That's my view.

[Blair]

I'm an atheist with a sincere and profound respect for any form of religion that has shaped a person for the better. If a certain religious belief can cause someone to live a happier more benificial life, I respect that. I respect the commitment of it and the dillagence (sp?)

[Heretic]

I believe religion is a delusion and a series of misguided, dogmatic opinions. But do I hate it? No. I can certainly hate some of the things that religious people do and say, but to hate an entire faith is pure ignorance. Every religion has certain teachings that I could agree with on moral, ethical, and humane principles.

[AmazonQueen]

Originally Posted by Chromata

I dislike religion itself and the bad things it causes, but I don't generally hate religious people. (I draw the line at when some of them start trying to convert other people.) I can half-understand why they believe what they believe; they want answers for the tough questions in life and religion gives them answers. However, I certainly don't agree with them.

That being said it's an "easy" way out. Personally I am not completely athiest I don't think I believe in spirits and life lessons. I don't believe in religion however. There is no religion for "the great" spirits and they arn't taken as one. Now i don't actually know if i'd be consider an atheist because I don't like religion and believe in the spirits or not but here is what i think anyway.

I think religion is a bad thing, it's like...I'm not even sure how to explain it. It almost like people who are desperate for answers turn to some delusion so they don't have to think for themselves. My dad's best friend is a messed up dude he's hardcore into religion and sits around on his ass, he doesn't take the initiative to go apply for a bunch of jobs. he tells us he's waiting for answers from god. where does that get him? back in a casino gambling away his life not to be seen or heard from in over a year and a half. religion to me just seems silly and personally i really dislike catholic and christianity. For all we know some schizophrenic guy could have wrote the bible maybe it was all in our head. there is no proof of jesus or any other god for that matter ever existing. it's frustrating that so many religious groups think you must believe in their god(s) other wise you are potentially a bad person. there are all sorts of silly rules and regulations that create so much tension in society that doesn't need to exist. im more than certain that part of the reason society is so against homosexuality is because the bible suggests its a sin. SO many people have died do to stupid things like this. and THAT is why I find religion so infuriating. I will respect others choices to believe although i can't help but think it's really not their CHOICE to believe. but i don't respect religion

Generally speaking, I don't hate religion. While I consider myself an atheist now, I don't believe that God can be proven to exist, just as I believe that he cannot be disproven. (My atheism rests in probabilities.) The same goes for ghosts and other supernatural entities. I would say I am a fairly tolerant person who is open-minded about a lot of religious beliefs, while holding my own at the same time.

However, I do really dislike fundamentalism. In my personal opinion, I think completely disregarding science and evolution is rather... primitive. So no, I don't hate religion as a whole; it's just the fundamentalism and extremism within certain religions that I have a major problem with.

[mIssIng:nO]

Originally Posted by The Odinson

I just think no matter how lowly you think of people in general, they'll always surprise you by being slightly lower.

I despise religion, it causes so much pain and is responsible for stifling free thought to an unpresedented degree. It stands for the banishment of reason and critical thinking...and is just,...so...wrong.

That said, if people want to believe in a supernatural entity, whatever, that's up to them =/.

Wrong, completely wrong.

As the Bible or any holy book is just guidelines on how to live, its the PEOPLE who blow it way out of context and start the fights/wars/disputes/pain, what ever you want to call it.

Religion its self, is a GREAT thing, as most religions MAINLY preach peace and love as the main "aspect" of the religion, like if someone believes that the bible says it separates some people, thats because thats how the person takes it, not because the book says its in fact.

I believe a main problem with religion is people look into is a scientific fact, that everything in the book is set in stone and thats it. When really, if people just took the message from what ever religion they took that living in harmony is the main point of living life, then we wouldn't have this problem.

Also, you make this claim as if everyone who is religious is extreme like that, once again, completely wrong.

Another thing, Athiests who look down on Religious people and feel they have a lack of intelligence for having faith in something that makes them live a happy life/ be a good person, then I don't see how you can feel you are any smarter. Lets see, this person is say, Hindu, and they happily live their life. How is there any lack of intelligence there, someone believes in something (that there is NO proof DOESN'T exist, or proof it DOES) makes them stupid?
Wow, I really can't see how you to come to that conclusion, but I'd imagine it takes a pretty narrow view point.

Another thing, your screen name is a norse god (hey look, its something to do with religion!)
may wanna change that then, because religion is so evil, wouldn't want to associate with it.


edit: forgot to say, I'm not religious at all, I wouldn't say I'm athiest because I believe there is "life after death", but not in a religious way (a heaven, a hell, a god even.), or any religion that I have come across

[mIssIng:nO]

Originally Posted by JamieRage

That being said it's an "easy" way out. Personally I am not completely athiest I don't think I believe in spirits and life lessons. I don't believe in religion however. There is no religion for "the great" spirits and they arn't taken as one. Now i don't actually know if i'd be consider an atheist because I don't like religion and believe in the spirits or not but here is what i think anyway.

I think religion is a bad thing, it's like...I'm not even sure how to explain it. It almost like people who are desperate for answers turn to some delusion so they don't have to think for themselves. My dad's best friend is a messed up dude he's hardcore into religion and sits around on his ass, he doesn't take the initiative to go apply for a bunch of jobs. he tells us he's waiting for answers from god. where does that get him? back in a casino gambling away his life not to be seen or heard from in over a year and a half. religion to me just seems silly and personally i really dislike catholic and christianity. For all we know some schizophrenic guy could have wrote the bible maybe it was all in our head. there is no proof of jesus or any other god for that matter ever existing. it's frustrating that so many religious groups think you must believe in their god(s) other wise you are potentially a bad person. there are all sorts of silly rules and regulations that create so much tension in society that doesn't need to exist. im more than certain that part of the reason society is so against homosexuality is because the bible suggests its a sin. SO many people have died do to stupid things like this. and THAT is why I find religion so infuriating. I will respect others choices to believe although i can't help but think it's really not their CHOICE to believe. but i don't respect religion

1) Why would it be any less legitimate than it already is if a mentally unstable person wrote it? Who knows, maybe they were more in touch because of it.
2) Actually, I believe there is some proof to the fact that a "Jesus" did exist,as he is mentioned in more than one holy text. Its interesting when I heard that, Infact I'm curious to go read more on it.

But he isn't a son of god, or a miracle worker (obviously), but I do believe he is mentioned as being a "holy" man of sorts, almost like a prophet.

Don't quote me on that though, I could just be completely wrong.

edit: It could be moses i'm thinking of actually.

[Fictional]

I disagree with the principles of most mainstream religions, but I have great admiration - and at time, envy - for the majoraty of the people who follow them. I see religion as being like a comfort blanket, but really that's no bad thing.

[To_Destination]

i personally dont care for it but if others do then its none of my business as its there life not mine. The thing i dont like is when those of a religion push it on others and i think its very rude

Originally Posted by mIssIng:nO

Wrong, completely wrong.

As the Bible or any holy book is just guidelines on how to live, its the PEOPLE who blow it way out of context and start the fights/wars/disputes/pain, what ever you want to call it.

I wouldn't say he is completely wrong, because I don't think he's actually far off the mark. Like I said, I don't hate religion at all, and I do believe that good things can come of it. But that doesn't change the fact that there has been fighting in its name.

As for the people blowing it out of proportion, that is absolutely true. People do blow holy scriptures out of proportion quite a bit. However, there are violent passages in a lot of the books. Whether the people choose to take those passages literally or allegorically is, naturally, dependent upon the person, which leads us back to the people blowing it out of proportion. But the people who do blow it out of proportion usually aren't pulling their beliefs out of thin air. There is usually at least one passage that stimulates these beliefs. Plus, fundamentalism (which I mentioned is really the only subcategory of religion that I have an issue with) does restrict your critical thinking skills. So while religion in general may not, there are some sects that do.

I think there is a lot of good and evil in religion, and like we can't say all Germans are evil because of what Hitler did (that's obviously false and ignorant), we can't say all religion is evil. But that doesn't mean that there is no evil or misunderstanding surrounding it.

[Xujhan]

Originally Posted by mIssIng:nO

Wrong, completely wrong.

As the Bible or any holy book is just guidelines on how to live, its the PEOPLE who blow it way out of context and start the fights/wars/disputes/pain, what ever you want to call it.

Religion its self, is a GREAT thing, as most religions MAINLY preach peace and love as the main "aspect" of the religion, like if someone believes that the bible says it separates some people, thats because thats how the person takes it, not because the book says its in fact.

That doesn't make religion great; religion can only be great if it produces something greater than a secular society would. I see no reason to think that religion increases the amount of love and peace in the world, and many reasons to think that it diminishes them.

Originally Posted by mIssIng:nO

I believe a main problem with religion is people look into is a scientific fact, that everything in the book is set in stone and thats it. When really, if people just took the message from what ever religion they took that living in harmony is the main point of living life, then we wouldn't have this problem.

Messages like "homosexuality is evil" and "women should be subservient to men" and "non-believers go to hell" and "humanity is sinful and deserves punishment"? Abrahamic religions preach love and peace, at times, but they contain many ugly messages as well. It's the latter that atheists object to. If there were a religion that said only "Be nice to others and don't fight" and nothing else, I would have many fewer objections to that.

Originally Posted by mIssIng:nO

Also, you make this claim as if everyone who is religious is extreme like that, once again, completely wrong.

I saw him make no such claim, nor have I ever met any atheist who does. I have however heard many fundamentalists insist that all atheists must be immoral.

Originally Posted by mIssIng:nO

Another thing, Athiests who look down on Religious people and feel they have a lack of intelligence for having faith in something that makes them live a happy life/ be a good person, then I don't see how you can feel you are any smarter. Lets see, this person is say, Hindu, and they happily live their life. How is there any lack of intelligence there, someone believes in something (that there is NO proof DOESN'T exist, or proof it DOES) makes them stupid?
Wow, I really can't see how you to come to that conclusion, but I'd imagine it takes a pretty narrow view point.

I have great respect for people who bother to educate themselves and think critically about the world; by definition then, I have less respect for people who don't. That you would say "no proof that it doesn't exist and no proof that it does" demonstrates that you don't understand the role that evidence and proof play in reasoning. Here are some other things for which there is neither proof for nor against: unicorns, faeries, leprechauns, Thor, Zeus, Sauron, Narnia, Atlantis, Klingons, etc. Essentially no one believes that any of those actually exist, and Yahweh is no more sensible a proposition.

Originally Posted by mIssIng:nO

Another thing, your screen name is a norse god (hey look, its something to do with religion!)
may wanna change that then, because religion is so evil, wouldn't want to associate with it.

No one subscribes to Norse mythology, so it's past the point of being able to do any harm. When the world regards Abrahamic religions as nothing but old folk tales, they too will become harmless.

[dr2005]

I did say I was going to stay out of it, but once again Fletcher throws a curveball. Damn you.

Originally Posted by Xujhan

That doesn't make religion great; religion can only be great if it produces something greater than a secular society would. I see no reason to think that religion increases the amount of love and peace in the world, and many reasons to think that it diminishes them.

That's a rather unsubstantiated claim in its current form, and does call for these reasons to be stated and an explanation as to why they are more divisive (which is the implication) than mere politics, geography or sheer human nature.

Originally Posted by Xujhan

Messages like "homosexuality is evil" and "women should be subservient to men" and "non-believers go to hell" and "humanity is sinful and deserves punishment"? Abrahamic religions preach love and peace, at times, but they contain many ugly messages as well. It's the latter that atheists object to. If there were a religion that said only "Be nice to others and don't fight" and nothing else, I would have many fewer objections to that.

Surely if it had that message and no other, your objections to it should be zero? That is after all preaching love and peace in its purest form, and the fact that you would retain objections infers that you're not being entirely straightforward about the bar you are setting.

Originally Posted by Xujhan

I saw him make no such claim, nor have I ever met any atheist who does. I have however heard many fundamentalists insist that all atheists must be immoral.

The inference was that religion exclusively causes pain, stifles free thought etc., which is inferring that all those within are extremists. I wouldn't have made the claim myself but I can see where it stems from.

Originally Posted by Xujhan

I have great respect for people who bother to educate themselves and think critically about the world; by definition then, I have less respect for people who don't. That you would say "no proof that it doesn't exist and no proof that it does" demonstrates that you don't understand the role that evidence and proof play in reasoning. Here are some other things for which there is neither proof for nor against: unicorns, faeries, leprechauns, Thor, Zeus, Sauron, Narnia, Atlantis, Klingons, etc. Essentially no one believes that any of those actually exist, and Yahweh is no more sensible a proposition.

This is an analogy which has come up on a number of occasions, and it remains a flawed one. All of the above have in their very nature observable criteria which fall within our frame of reference - physical characteristics such as a unicorn's horse body and forehead horn, leprechauns' size and other characteristics, Zeus' beard and robes, Thor's beard and hammer and the architecture of Atlantis. (I'm omitting the others because including characters from explicit works of fiction is a bit of a smoke-and-mirrors ploy in trying to convince people religion is fiction) All of these thereby leave markers which are observable to us and would indicate their existence; while there is some spurious evidence that suggest somewhere like Atlantis may have existed (and spurious is definitely the word), no evidence for it or the others has been found which meets the required standard and could reasonably be expected given their depictions. As such, the lack of evidence can specifically count against their existence as depicted. In contrast, Yahweh (to use your example) has no such characteristics which are observable in the same way - the Torah contains no description of him, nor does the Bible, and Islam forbids any depictions of him so you won't find any there either. Whatever form Yahweh may take exists outside of our Universe and thereby outside our frame of reference, and while that provides no proof for his existence it does make the comparison you posited a flawed one.

Originally Posted by Xujhan

No one subscribes to Norse mythology, so it's past the point of being able to do any harm. When the world regards Abrahamic religions as nothing but old folk tales, they too will become harmless.

All I will say is that I would not advise holding your breath on that. For one thing, you tend to suffocate which is never advisable...

[TheNumber42]

Originally Posted by 3.14159265358979323846264

I'm an atheist and I don't hate religion, I think it's stupid it, and I don't respect the religion but I will respect the people who follow the religion, unless they're being stupid...

Isn't that a contradiction? If you believe religion is stupid, must one not be stupid to follow it?

[TheNumber42]

My personal opinion is that religion is totally irrational and a very harmful entity. It promotes hatred, bigotry, violence and even genocide. Believers are expected to give significant amounts of time and money to their religion. Wouldn't it be somewhat morally wrong for me to allow them to persist in what I believe is a delusion (and a harmful one at that) when they are expending so many of their own resources to support it?

That's my view anyway.

[mIssIng:nO]

Originally Posted by Xujhan

That doesn't make religion great; religion can only be great if it produces something greater than a secular society would. I see no reason to think that religion increases the amount of love and peace in the world, and many reasons to think that it diminishes them.

Then you are straight retarded, I can name one of the biggest charitable oraganizations off the top of my head and guess what, its Christian. How many Churches open up their doors for homeless people to sleep, how many have free meals for homeless people. I'd say thats a pretty good reason to think that religion increases the amount of love and peace in th world, and it took me about 3 seconds to think of that, I could easily do more but why?

Messages like "homosexuality is evil" and "women should be subservient to men" and "non-believers go to hell" and "humanity is sinful and deserves punishment"? Abrahamic religions preach love and peace, at times, but they contain many ugly messages as well. It's the latter that atheists object to. If there were a religion that said only "Be nice to others and don't fight" and nothing else, I would have many fewer objections to that.

People have different opinions on what they want to believe, I'm not going to think someone is less intelligent because of it. I may not agree with it, but they have every right in the world of believe what ever the hell they want. Its not a good message, but thats only in "my" view. Also, i'd be inclined to agree that Humanity needs punishment.

I saw him make no such claim, nor have I ever met any atheist who does. I have however heard many fundamentalists insist that all atheists must be immoral.
I didn't mean "him" directly, although "I despise religion, it causes so much pain and is responsible for stifling free thought to an unpresedented degree. It stands for the banishment of reason and critical thinking" pretty much shows he thinks religion brings peoples ability to think for them selves and unable to think logically (or critically as he put i) which is pretty much saying that religion equals lack of intelligence. and also. You haven't heard/met anyone who's made this claim, so it has no merit, but since you've heard Fundamentalists says Atheists are immoral it makes it true? So YOU have to hear something personally for it to be true? Damn, how far is your head up your ass if you think thats the case?

I have great respect for people who bother to educate themselves and think critically about the world; by definition then, I have less respect for people who don't. That you would say "no proof that it doesn't exist and no proof that it does" demonstrates that you don't understand the role that evidence and proof play in reasoning. Here are some other things for which there is neither proof for nor against: unicorns, faeries, leprechauns, Thor, Zeus, Sauron, Narnia, Atlantis, Klingons, etc. Essentially no one believes that any of those actually exist, and Yahweh is no more sensible a proposition.
I used the whole proof/no proof thing just to show that its stupid when people think someone is "less intelligent" for following a religion. Its like saying someone is stupid for saying a sports team is going to win the championship before the season even has began, there is no real way to make the claim either way, only can you piece the little bits of evidence you have together to make an decision on what you want to believe (Its obviously on a much, much larger scale)

Sauron is from the lord of the rings, Narnia is from a series a books with a related title, Klingons are from Star trek. Atlantis actually is a possibility as there is sunken areas of the world, Unicorns are just a stupid fairy tale, along with Faeries and Leprechauns. And yes, Yahweh is a more sensible claim because there has been more evidence pointing towards the possibility he does exist (whether the evidence is legit is up for grabs, but there still is) The fact that Faeries and such are just folk legends in most parts of the world, while any "diety" has information that can point towards a "real" existence, but I will agree with you, it does take blind faith for someone to accept it completely.

Also, stop grasping at straws, Sauron, Narnia, Klingons? Cmon man, also, No one worships anything else that you put there (unless you count Zeus and thor, but you yourself said no one follows) so once again, this was a grasp at straws considering it has nothing to do with the current topic, no one is following the word of the unicorn and claiming it to be the "right" religion, so once again no real point there, i understand that you gotta be sarcastic to stay edgy but really you can do better than that.

No one subscribes to Norse mythology, so it's past the point of being able to do any harm. When the world regards Abrahamic religions as nothing but old folk tales, they too will become harmless. I was joking...

I'm not even going to bother though. The fact that you'd even bring fictional characters into this argument shows that you just want to bash religion at any chance you get with pretty dumb claims.

I'm not even religious and I'd hate to call my self an atheist if it meant being group with people like you. I can understand wanting proof of something to believe it exists (i.e a greater being), which is why I personally don't my self. But you have to be very, very narrow minded if you believe that religion (ANY religion) does not do a huge amount of great in the world.

Also, since you've never seen atheists attack religious peoples intelligence, heres a link for you. http://www.chrisbeach.co.uk/viewQuotes.php?QuotePage=1

[Kumagoro]

I think hate's too strong a word for me... I don't like religion as such, but I don't have a problem with religious people as long as they don't shove it down my throat. It would be hypocritical of me to shove atheism down somebody's throat - it's my belief and I'm entitled to it, just as they are entitled to theirs. But I can't say I like religion because I feel some religious beliefs are unfair and they cause conflict between groups of people.

If religion gives you something to hold on to in life, then that's great. I know it helps so many people, having a faith to believe in. It's when people get too preachy that it doesn't help anyone.

[AmazonQueen]

Originally Posted by mIssIng:nO

1) Why would it be any less legitimate than it already is if a mentally unstable person wrote it? Who knows, maybe they were more in touch because of it.
2) Actually, I believe there is some proof to the fact that a "Jesus" did exist,as he is mentioned in more than one holy text. Its interesting when I heard that, Infact I'm curious to go read more on it.

But he isn't a son of god, or a miracle worker (obviously), but I do believe he is mentioned as being a "holy" man of sorts, almost like a prophet.

Don't quote me on that though, I could just be completely wrong.

edit: It could be moses i'm thinking of actually.

how is it any MORE legitamate because jesus exists in more than one so called holy writing??
scientists have more than one theory of evolution. if that's how you justify your beliefs then surely mine must be stronger than yours due to some proof of evolution. there is NO proof of religion. it's all faith, if people didn't have faith there would be NO religion. now im sure that being said it doesn't help my arguement but i don't care. what im trying to say anyone could have written the bible. and anybody else could have made up their own "holy" vartiations. which is one possibility.
i don't believe in such this as "holy" unless its my socks or swiss cheese. (im just sayn)