Religion that ruins lives.
 

Re: Religion that ruins lives.
 

I do not think we should just let them do these horrible things because it's their religion. I have always had a hatred for Polygamy and I hate how so many people are forced into this terrible religion and they have no choice.

Re: Religion that ruins lives.
 

Re: Religion that ruins lives.
 

Um, out of curiousity, when did polygamy become a religion?

Morons and LDS no longer support polygamy as a whole, though some still practice it, but its important to mention, polygamy is not uniquely a religious practice.

Polygamy:

Though on topic, religions should not carry out interpersonal practices prohibited by society. Admittedly on the other hand, I feel is prayer was outlawed, religious people still should ignore the law and continue. But in terms of how we treat other people, it should always be on the basis of mutual consent and willingness.

Re: Religion that ruins lives.
 

I'm confused also, was there a revolution where polygamy became a religion? Two people apparently say it is a religion so when did it become one?. People of various religions do polygamy but not everyone in certain religions do.

Should we let young people get whipped, beaten and whatever so they'll work more? Absolutely not. We shouldn't have that happening to any persons.

Re: Religion that ruins lives.
 

Re: Religion that ruins lives.
 

For one, I seriously, seriously doubt Warren Jeffs will be getting out anytime soon.

Secondly, where did you get the idea that people were allowed to get away with 'bad things' because it was part of their religion?

If I beat up a homosexual of cut off a theif's hands, I wouldn't just get away with it because I said to the police "Hey man, it's cool! It's my religion!"

If you don't remember the crack down on the FLDS compound, they definitely DID NOT get away with it. It was in the news for weeks, Jeffs was sent to prison (obviously) and their kids were taken away.

Keep in mind that FLDS is a cult not a religion, and polygamy is not a religion and is not practiced in any mainstream religion anymore. The LDS church (Mormon) reject this now which is why groups like the FLDS (Hint: Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints) break off and form cults.

Cults and indoctranation occur all over the place but if something illegal is going down (and their is proof) they DON'T get away with it so I don't know why you think they do.

Also, I don't really have a problem with polygamy if it isn't occuring within a cult and everyone is a consenting adult.

Re: Religion that ruins lives.
 

Re: Religion that ruins lives.
 

I definitely understand what you mean but I don't understand your point- They didn't get away with it.

Re: Religion that ruins lives.
 

You may not be able to stop it but why would you want to stop it? If it's doing no harm and each member is a legal adult who consents and wants it, then no need to break it up. I do agree with you on helping with outreach programs.

Re: Religion that ruins lives.
 

I'm also interested in why people are making an artificial connection between polygamy and fundamentalist cults and using that connection to attack polygamy. You sound like fundamentalists yourselves - "oh, that X group of people we hate do Y, so Y is bad!".

Re: Religion that ruins lives.
 

Re: Religion that ruins lives.
 

Polygamy is not a religion.

btw - I think if we're going to allow polygamy, it should only be between concenting adults, who cannot have children.

Re: Religion that ruins lives.
 

That's "consent" btw.

Why shouldn't they be able to have children? Ever hear of contraception?

Re: Religion that ruins lives.
 

Re: Religion that ruins lives.
 

So because there's more than one parent, you should keep a closer eye on three normal, caring parents than say a couple of ex-convicts? And I've heard of a 4-person BDSM relationship that resulted in a perfectly normal girl. It depends entirely on the situation.

[EDIT] Actually, now that I think of it a relationship between two women and a man wouldn't have any effect on the child since only one of the women is going to consider the child their own. In that case it's essentially a monogamous family.

Re: Religion that ruins lives.
 

Re: Religion that ruins lives.
 

We don't. Why should we start telling polygamous couples how to raise their children if we can't help children who are actually at risk?

Re: Religion that ruins lives.
 

I've never heard of this, but I think it's sick. The true Christian religion does NOT support these things. It is not Christianity ruining these people's lives, it is the false teachers and people doing horrible things "in the name of God" that God would NEVER be okay with. I don't know much about this religion (Or, people are saying it isn't a religion? Well I don't know much about polygamy, whatever it is), but it does not seem Godly. It seems like a false teaching that is the fault of these people doing these horrible things.

Re: Religion that ruins lives.
 

"True Christian religion". What exactly is that?

You admit to not even knowing what it is yet you're against it. Classic. How can you then call it a false teaching when you don't have a clue what it "teaches"? You then say they do so so horrible things... yet you cant even say what any of these things are because you don't know what they are. You just know it doesn't thump your bible and so you don't want to hear any more of it.

Perhaps you should put down your persecutory bible and pick up a dictionary.

Re: Religion that ruins lives.
 

By "true Christian religion", I meant the bible and God's will.

Well the original post says that someone was raping children "in the name of God". That is wrong no matter HOW you look at it. So if the rest of the religion is anything like that, it is horrible and IS a false teaching. Because that is wrong no matter how you look at it. No I don't know much detail about the religion, but if they condone something like that, then yes I am against it.

Re: Religion that ruins lives.
 

Polygamy != religion.
Polyamory != religion.

It's not that hard to grasp you know! If I was in a polygamous relationship I'd be raging! :D

Re: Religion that ruins lives.
 

Like I said, I know very little about this religion. I just know what was said in the original post of this topic, and a few random facts from tv (Not like tv series that are fake, I mean like the news and talk shows that had the victims of it on). And that is enough for me to know that it is horrible and a false teaching. The "leaders" are doing things and making people do things that God would NEVER tell them to do. Rape, for example. Doing something wrong "in the name of God" does not make it okay.

p.s. This post is not aimed at you, Union Of V. I didn't want you to think so since your post is above mine...I just re-read and understood this topic a little better and wanted to re-type my original post.

Re: Religion that ruins lives.
 

Re: Religion that ruins lives.
 

Re: Religion that ruins lives.
 

That's kind of vague really. In parts of the bible, it does condone raping of children and such.

I don't know how to get you to understand, it is NOT a religion. It was said several times by different people in response to the OP that it is NOT a religion yet you keep saying it is. Even the OP acknowledged their mistake and said it wasn't yet you keep saying it is over and over. I really don't know what sources you've been using because nobody with half a brain says it's a religion.

You mention rape, well that's something god does tell people to do in the Old Testament. He orders on numerous accounts for people to tear apart a village and keep the women and children for slave and raping. Just because you haven't read the Old Testament doesn't mean it's not there.

Re: Religion that ruins lives.
 

I think you mean mormons? and btw Mormons are LDS, same thing :)

Re: Religion that ruins lives.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlora (Post 443709) I think you mean mormons? and btw Mormons are LDS, same thing :)

That's funny - I didn't notice it before.


btw - there's probably a reason so many polygamist live in secret.

Re: Religion that ruins lives.
 

to be honest, I don't agree with LDS/mormons... and i have family members who participate in this religion.

Re: Religion that ruins lives.
 

Okay it's not a religion....Like I said, I know very few things about it. Well whatever it is, from what I know about it so far, I don't agree with it. I will try to read more about what it is so that I can have an educatd opinion.

I will have to ask my pastor where in the Old Testament that is and what it means. I only got saved less than 6 months ago, and since then have been reading mostly the New Testament...I am trying to read the Old Testament too, but have a harder time understanding it. So, I will ask a pastor or someone involved in my church what that is referring to. But reguardless, yes the Old Testament is there- But we have to remember that it is BEFORE Jesus died. Therefor, things have changed since then. I believe in the bible 100%, both the new and the old testament; but we have to read it in the context which it was written. I REALLY REALLY doubt that God wants those things today. I will look more into where that is in the bible and study it and get back to you on that one.

Re: Religion that ruins lives.
 

Re: Religion that ruins lives.
 

They don't live in secret. In fact they tend to be quite open about their sexuality (maybe by using a replacement for the word religion people will cop on?).

Re: Religion that ruins lives.
 

Do you happen know where in the bible this is? I know you said it was all through the Old Testament, so I will look....But do you know any specific chapter or verse where I can find it?

Re: Religion that ruins lives.
 

Re: Religion that ruins lives.
 

I think what Tara was trying to say is that whether he wanted X now or then is irrelevant, if he ever wanted X then X can't be wrong by definition.

Re: Religion that ruins lives.
 

Re: Religion that ruins lives.
 

That's not really true. Yes, God is never changing NOW that Jesus came, but things DID change from before Jesus died to after Jesus died. I will ask someone at my church about what you mentioned about the rape and such in the bible, because I don't know where that is or what context it was meant in.

Just because I am quoting the bible doesn't mean that I have the entire bible memorized and know where each verse is. :bleh: I still have to ask where things are sometimes.

Re: Religion that ruins lives.
 

There is a difference between polygamists and following whatever Warren Jeffs does. I think he's a broken-off sect of LDS.

I don't think that religion should be an excuse for child abuse and in most places, it's not. I don't think that a thirteen-year-old (or younger) should get married even if her husband isn't supposed to touch her till her first period (which can occur at a young age) or another predetermined date set by the parents.

I think that the op meant the Warren Jeffs sect and mistakenly used the term polygamy since it was part of his church. He was accused of having sex with young girls.

Whose standards? Some polygamists are successful people who teach their children to have standards such as volunteer, have good grades, respect other people, and the like. Just because they have committed relationships with multiple people doesn't mean the kids are being raised in unstable and amoral circumstances.

Also, just because the majority of stories on the Internet are negative do not mean that all are negative. A lot of them involve sects that practice strict standards and forced, young marriages and should not be confused with consenting adults. There used to be a member on here where her parents were polygamists. I think she used to live in Washington D.C. or she went to college there. Jessica?

I think the OP was more focused on the group of the FLDS and not polygamists as she mentions Warren Jeffs, who was accused of arranging marriages with adults and underage girls.

Re: Religion that ruins lives.
 

That's good you'll look into it further but by continuing to say this, meaning you don't know what it is yet you still disagree, it's not going well for you.

To save time, I'll do it for you:

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19)
Agreed, the Old Testament can be a bit harder to understand so I won't get on you about that because I have trouble understanding some of it at times.

As true as that may be, the bible says in various books not to ignore it. It's even said by Jesus:

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:17-20)

Sad to say, although that is possible, so much of the Old Testament contradicts with itself and the New Testament, it's impossible to agree with all of it. You'd be agreeing with countless contradictions, which you can if you want but it'd mean you'll have to pick one side or another in order for it to not contradict. Hence, agreeing in 100% of it isn't possible.

Regardless of which pastor or priest you ask, any Christian or other person who has read even a page of the bible will tell you that you cannot know god's will. You can think that god may doubt something but as said in the bible, which you agree with 100%, you have no place to say what god wants because you don't know enough. It certainly doesn't fit with the laws and morals but those are what humans use to understand each other, not to understand god.

Re: Religion that ruins lives.
 

Did not mean to write morons.

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EDIT: This section was added after Megan's post below.

As Megan (post below) points out, not all of the OT is law. Some are accounts. The examples of the nationof Israel going to war is not Law. Nonetheless on the topic of Law, Paul talks about the Law quite a lot. He points out the Law is good, etc, the point is, that righteousness of Christian's comes from Grace, apart from the Law. Christians have been set free from the Law. No one can fully keep the Law, and the Law brings death. The Law is why, in fact, we need grace. When people say 'The Laws of the OT don't count', they don't mean they are rendered null, and should be forgotten, I mean, even the fact we still have them in our Bibles should say something. But the purpose of them has changed. Romans 3 is one of the places he talks about this (its from Bible gateway, hence the reference letters, just because Im not going through deleting them):

But hey, Christianity must be doing something right if you feel they should be close to the OT, regardless of the NT, because they are far stricter morally, and far more right-wing and fundamental, on average, than the Jews (Jews are generally most progressive, and socially accepting. For example, most Jewish denominations, excluding some of the very orthadox, except gays, and even marry them), who only have the OT. Personally I would think something is wrong here, but it may put your mind at ease for consistancy.

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Dude, stay on topic. You can't turn every thread to bash people for being Bible believing Christians. Safe space. You want to do this sort of thing, make a thread, I'm sure she'll go there. But get a grip, to someone who actually believes in the God of the Bible, and that the Bible is his written word, although you have gone and learnt stuff, you come across as still both ignorant and arrogant, because although you may have learnt some stuff, you are reading it for the purpose of bashing, so you don't see it in the completed picture Christians feel is there. And to be frank, if it's not in a discussion for that purpose, but elsewhere, it's simply annoying. Let me give you an example of how annoying it is from something you might understand - creationalists, in every thread, talking about evolution like they know it in and out.

And back to the thread, many societies have had male polygamy - that is men having multiple wives. And although sexist, they didn't condemn child rape, and a certain level of behaviour was expected toward wives, unless it went through legal services. So these people in the first post are not even doing it because such a practice leads to it, but because they desire to. But as I said before, I think interpersonal relationships, religion or not, should be mediated by most importantly consent, but then society's laws (to an extent). Consent being most important, because, well, society isn't always the most liberal of places. For example in the UK, many BDSM (kinky sexual) practices are not legal, but I feel if there are consenting adults, playing (as) safe (as they can), with a chance to leave when they want, is fine. Basically, I think consent is a better excuse for behaviour than religion.