Religion that ruins lives.

[Megan1]

That's good you'll look into it further but by continuing to say this, meaning you don't know what it is yet you still disagree, it's not going well for you.

I don't know everything about it, but I have an opinion on the parts that I know so far.

To save time, I'll do it for you:

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19)

Well I still see nothing about raping children in there, which I thought was what we were talking about- someone said that that was in the bible.....But anyways, I understand your point that God called for things like that back then and I said that He wouldn't want that....Things were VERY different then, and that does NOT apply to today. That was written in a specific context for a specifc group of people. Not for us and not for now.

As true as that may be, the bible says in various books not to ignore it. It's even said by Jesus:

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:17-20)

I completely agree that we can't ignore the Old Testament. BUT, like I said, we can't take things out of context. Just because in the stories, God ordered specific people to destroy other specific people- does NOT mean that we have the right to do that to people now. God did not order US to do that, he ordered those people in those stories to. Like Noah and the ark for example....Just because God ordered Noah to build an ark and it is in our bible, does not mean that we are all supposed to go build arks. Does that make sense? Some of those orders in the bible were for specific people.

Sad to say, although that is possible, so much of the Old Testament contradicts with itself and the New Testament, it's impossible to agree with all of it. You'd be agreeing with countless contradictions, which you can if you want but it'd mean you'll have to pick one side or another in order for it to not contradict. Hence, agreeing in 100% of it isn't possible.

Read the comment that I wrote for the above quote, I think it will explain this too.

Regardless of which pastor or priest you ask, any Christian or other person who has read even a page of the bible will tell you that you cannot know god's will. You can think that god may doubt something but as said in the bible, which you agree with 100%, you have no place to say what god wants because you don't know enough. It certainly doesn't fit with the laws and morals but those are what humans use to understand each other, not to understand god.

You're right, and I never said that I knew God's complete will for sure. I said "I really really doubt that is what he wants"...And if you go by the ten commandments and Jesus' teaching, it definitely doesn't go along with that.

[Tara.]

Anyways - isn't polygamy illegal? If you're breaking the law it doesn't matter why.

[OMFG!You'reActuallySmart!]

Originally Posted by Invert

Dude, stay on topic. You can't turn every thread to bash people for being Bible believing Christians. Safe space. You want to do this sort of thing, make a thread, I'm sure she'll go there.

I tried something similar before and it didn't exactly work out. It did for the first few responses but then some Christians came in, preached away and ended it. I tried to get them to quit preaching and they wanted to hear my argument but they returned to preaching. The only kind of thread that'll work would be a much more aggressive one but that would probably get closed. I'd be happy to make such a thread but limit it to the people who enter (i.e. certain users because in the past they've just preached away and it got ruined). In return, I'd be happy with Christians making such threads where they say which users they do NOT want to post in it (and other believers of other denominations or philosophies).

If I could make a thread and say which users I do NOT want to enter, I would do that right away. But who is going to enforce that on TH? I cant and I cant think of anyone else who will without closing the thread or allowing those people I didn't want to post to be able to post. So tell me how I should go about to do this because I really don't know how. PMing doesn't quite work because I'd like the opinions of others, just not of certain others, which is not feasible by any way via PMing. I'd be happy using Skype, stickam or whatever else but none of that's on TH.

The best I can think of is in chat, getting a room and time made just for that. But that'd mean booting those who just preach away and don't listen. Anyways, I'll probably get warned or get an infraction for even posting this

Originally Posted by Invert

you are reading it for the purpose of bashing, so you don't see it in the completed picture Christians feel is there.

I used to believe in it and see and feel the picture that was there, although I knew less about it back then. However, I can still see the picture, I just don't agree with it nor feel it.

Originally Posted by Megan1

Well I still see nothing about raping children in there, which I thought was what we were talking about- someone said that that was in the bible.....But anyways, I understand your point that God called for things like that back then and I said that He wouldn't want that....Things were VERY different then, and that does NOT apply to today. That was written in a specific context for a specifc group of people. Not for us and not for now.

That quote was to show how when I said before that god ordered an entire community to be killed just for having one non-believer in it. You said you hadn't read the bible to that point so I gave the passage for it. But for raping children there's a bunch of quotes, I just picked two:

"This is what the LORD says: 'Out of your own household I am going to bring calamity on you. Before your very eyes I will take your wives and give them to one who is close to you, and he will sleep with your wives in broad daylight. You did it in secret, but I will do this thing in broad daylight before all Israel.' "
Then David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the LORD."
Nathan replied, "The LORD has taken away your sin. You are not going to die. But because by doing this you have shown utter contempt for the LORD, the son born to you will die."(2 Samuel 12:11-14)


AND


When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. When the LORD your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the LORD your God gives you from your enemies. (Deuteronomy 20:10-14)

Originally Posted by Megan1

I completely agree that we can't ignore the Old Testament. BUT, like I said, we can't take things out of context. Just because in the stories, God ordered specific people to destroy other specific people- does NOT mean that we have the right to do that to people now.

Legally, morally and ethically, you're 100% correct, and I agree, no question. But when you say you believe in the bible 100%, then since these things are in the bible, you must believe and accept those. Perhaps you aren't going to do them but you must believe. However, why would some people, namely fundamentalists, do them? They think they have the right and should do them so shouldn't others also do that if they accept the bible 100% like these guys do (or claim to)?

Originally Posted by Megan1

You're right, and I never said that I knew God's complete will for sure. I said "I really really doubt that is what he wants"...And if you go by the ten commandments and Jesus' teaching, it definitely doesn't go along with that.

If you go along with the 10 commandments, then lots and lots of things god did in the old testament are things god probably doesn't want. The main one is murder.