Deism- The most hated 'religion'

[Hdjdjdjduvieg]

As a deist myself, I've come to determine deism as the most (unconsidered) but hated religion.

Religion people hate us because we are not religious, nor do we associate with a church, etc, or any given organised religion or follow any of their steps.

Atheists hate us because we believe in God (or at least some form of supreme being)


Anyways, I've come to this conclusive religion because as a lover of science, I feel that everything (including 'love') is chemical reactions, in the way that traces back down to the very first big bang... but I believe something had to put those chemicals there to begin with. Even in the sense of spontaneous generation, the space for the chemicals to form in had to be created somehow. How? No idea. God? Could be. Organised religion? Nah.

And in this sense, I can pick and choose what I believe based solely off MY beliefs, rather than following those of a rabbi or priest or muslim leader thing... Reincarnation, for example. I believe in that, as well, solely because I deny the possibility to not exist.

Thoughts?

[AnaMZ]

I don't hate deism, but your words summarise what I dislike about it:

"I can pick and choose what I believe based solely off MY beliefs, rather than following those of a rabbi or priest or muslim leader thing... Reincarnation, for example. I believe in that, as well, solely because I deny the possibility to not exist."

Thus, your "beliefs" are based on what is comforting, not what is true or correct. Yes, this is the same for pretty much every religion out there, but as organised religions with set doctrines, they're less likely to admit it. So I feel much the same about deists as I do about theists - you're all just after the warm fuzzies, it's just that the deists are the only ones 'fessing up to wanting it.

[Hdjdjdjduvieg]

Well, right. I believe what is comforting, and what works best for me. Do I believe that some supreme being will abide to my whims and beliefs-- of course not, because I do not necessarily believe in that type of creator.

Yes shouldn't your own personal beliefs rather than blindly following a church leader's or the trend of atheism stand true as a more self righteous, independent way of thinking? Yet it is denounced.

[Toast]

Can you please explain what exactly Deism is? I could look it up on Wikipedia but this tends to work better.

[BigBL87]

I don't hate deists or deism. In fact, I wouldn't say it is the most hated by any stretch.

The fact is, a good number of people who call themselves "Christians" (at least in the US) are what I would call "morally therapeutic deists." They believe in God because his existence is a comforting thought and perhaps because they see design in our world, but they don't really believe in Christ's death, resurrection, etc.. They do live by the teachings that they care to, hence the "morally" part of my description. They call themselves Christians but their beliefs don't fit that label.

In addition, just because you are a part of a church does not mean that you "must believe" what the minister/priest/whatever you will says. I attend a Restoration Movement Christian Church (i.e. Independent Christian Churches/Churches of Christ), and while I generally fall in line with the theology of the movement I do have some substantial differences. My view of Baptism, for example, is far different from that of the movement my church is a part of.

Originally Posted by AnaMZ

So I feel much the same about deists as I do about theists - you're all just after the warm fuzzies, it's just that the deists are the only ones 'fessing up to wanting it.

What I don't understand is that the simple belief in a supreme being automatically means that we're "just after the warm fuzzies." I, for one, came to my belief via a process of study, reasoning, and philosophical reflection. I've never had that "warm fuzzy" religious experience that some Christians have had.

I honestly think that it is incredibly arrogant to assume that no one can come to a different conclusion than you when presented with the same evidence.

Originally Posted by Toast

Can you please explain what exactly Deism is? I could look it up on Wikipedia but this tends to work better.

The basic description I would give is that it is the belief in a creator God who, since creating the world, has not intervened in it. This creator God can be compared to a watch-maker who created the world, wound it up, and stepped back. Beliefs from person to person may change, but that is the connecting feature of all forms of deism.

[Hdjdjdjduvieg]

Originally Posted by Toast

Can you please explain what exactly Deism is? I could look it up on Wikipedia but this tends to work better.

Basically, it is the belief in a supreme being, but accompanied by the separation from any organised religion.

[Xujhan]

Funny how almost every group and religion under the sun happens to be the "most hated". By and large, most people aren't hateful, no matter what you believe in. Sorry to spoil your martyrdom. In fact, most atheists I've talked to are just fine with deists. Even most militant atheists only take exception to organized religion.

[Lugez]

For those who don't know, Deism is - Belief in a divine creator, but doesn't play any part in our lives. Some claim he abandonded it, some say he "stepped back." I'm not sure which one it is.

One reason I can see Atheists being a bit annoyed by Deism is because, if you think about it, Deism is a step right behind Atheism. You'd might as well just ditch the all powerful creator, because you're already 95% there.

So on a scale of reason (1 being no reason, 10 being most reasonable), Atheists may put Christianity at a 2, Deism an 8, Agnosticism a 9, and Atheism a 10. Maybe some might switch Agnosticism and Deism..

In my personal experience, I went from:
Catholicism -> ??? -> Agnosticism -> Deism -> Atheism

[AnaMZ]

Originally Posted by Phin

Well, right. I believe what is comforting, and what works best for me. Do I believe that some supreme being will abide to my whims and beliefs-- of course not, because I do not necessarily believe in that type of creator.

Yes shouldn't your own personal beliefs rather than blindly following a church leader's or the trend of atheism stand true as a more self righteous, independent way of thinking? Yet it is denounced.

Well, not really, no. If it is comforting for you to believe that gravity does not exist and you can fly, then sure, okay. But it hardly strikes me as an intelligent thing to do; whether it is a pleasant thing to believe is beside the point.

[AnaMZ]

Originally Posted by BigBL87

What I don't understand is that the simple belief in a supreme being automatically means that we're "just after the warm fuzzies." I, for one, came to my belief via a process of study, reasoning, and philosophical reflection. I've never had that "warm fuzzy" religious experience that some Christians have had.

I honestly think that it is incredibly arrogant to assume that no one can come to a different conclusion than you when presented with the same evidence.

I apologise if it seemed like I was assuming something here. But I mean more along the lines of worshipping a god, or choosing a set of beliefs based on whether you personally agree with them or not (rather than evidence for or against the probability of them being true). Personally I am of the opinion that even the most reasoned, philosophical pathways leading to belief in the existence of a god have come about partly due to the human desire for comfort and reassurance, particularly when it comes to death and the afterlife. But, I wouldn't want to discuss that here.

Just out of curiosity, what are you gaining by believing in a God? No, I'm not trying to be utilitarian about belief, I'm just curious.

[BigBL87]

Originally Posted by AnaMZ

Just out of curiosity, what are you gaining by believing in a God? No, I'm not trying to be utilitarian about belief, I'm just curious.

I might ask you the converse, what are you gaining by NOT believing in a God?

As far as answering the question, I suppose there are a number of ways that it could be answered. Salvation might be one answer, security might be another, but both of those are contingent on actually believing in an afterlife. I suppose I could also say a supportive group of fellow believers. But, the main thing about it is that those are not the REASONS that I believe, they are just the result. If I didn't believe in God, I wouldn't have anything to worry about, I wouldn't need salvation or security because I simply wouldn't care because I wouldn't believe that there was an afterlife. Believing in God (and Christ for that matter) didn't make life easier by any stretch, in fact in some ways some might say it makes life a tad more difficult. The reason I believe is simply because I believe it is true, after having searched through many belief (and non-belief) systems to find that truth.

I am often accused (not in a bad way, necessarily) of being overly academic in my faith, which is just the way I happen to be wired. I don't get those "warm fuzzies" during worship songs that some people get, nor have I ever had an overwhelming religious experience. I've always really liked the writings of C.S. Lewis, as I see a bit of myself in him although I could never be as eloquent or intelligent as he was. Between Mere Christianity and A Grief Observed, I see alot of the way that I think and the way that I came to my faith.