What's your opinion? (any religion)

[trying_to_get_control]

Okay, so I completely believe in God, don't get me wrong. I believe in most of what the Holy Bible says, and I know there is a heaven and hell. And I do believe that you can sin, and to get to heaven you need forgiveness. But I do not believe that going to church every Sunday and Wednesday is the correct thing. I don't think it is wrong, and I wouldn't mind going to church a little more regular anyway, but still, I don't believe that "drinking" is a sin, and that to get to heaven you have to be perfect. I don't believe there is perfect, I believe many people who have done wrong things have still got to heaven...

What's your opinion?

[Grizabella]

I see sin as the method religions use to control the masses. So-called sins are natural and lead to emotional and physical gratification. So religions demonize these natural, unavoidable feelings in order to create a need for religion. If you are sinning, you need a method of redemption, and that method naturally becomes the religion you follow.

That's not to say I think we should give in to all of our natural urges. But I don't think they are inheritently evil, as religions suggest.

[Oiseau the Little Bird!]

Drinking is a sin? Didn't know that.
Well remember, a lot of people still take rules from the OT and refuse to acknowledge that Jesus came 'round and changed it.

[SillyEvee]

Drinking is definitely NOT a sin in the OT. In fact, it's encouraged. It's a must to have a glass of wine (or a sip, for kids) every Friday night. In fact, on Purim, we are encouraged to get drunk so we can hang out with G-d without the intrusion of our intellect. This simulates the feelings the Jews had when they learned that King Achaverosh of Persia wasn't going to kill them. We're cautioned not to get high on any kinds of substances in the ordinary course of things, since these are "artificial." The only "real" high comes from knowing G-d. In some cases, alcohol can get us closer to G-d, but only if it's being used conciously for that purpose.

Anyway, I don't think we're supposed to be perfect. Only G-d and angels are perfect. G-d's only perfect because G-d is everything and angels are only perfect because they have no free will. G-d created us with the ability to turn away from Him, and He fully expects us to.
But even better, He created us with the ability to turn back to Him. That's all you need to get into Heaven. Just turn back. G-d does not delight in the death of the wicked. Rather, He awaits that they turn from their wicked ways and have life. (That's paraphrasing a passage from one of the Prophets, but I can't remember which one.)

[Algernon]

Originally Posted by trying_to_get_control

Okay, so I completely believe in God, don't get me wrong. I believe in most of what the Holy Bible says, and I know there is a heaven and hell. And I do believe that you can sin, and to get to heaven you need forgiveness. But I do not believe that going to church every Sunday and Wednesday is the correct thing. I don't think it is wrong, and I wouldn't mind going to church a little more regular anyway, but still, I don't believe that "drinking" is a sin, and that to get to heaven you have to be perfect. I don't believe there is perfect, I believe many people who have done wrong things have still got to heaven...

What's your opinion?

The same thing you believe pretty much.

And remember, Jesus had a problem with authority, and he didn't have a church to go to every Sunday.

[MadPoet]

Wait, what? I don't think drinking is a sin, at least not in the Catholic church. At our Catholic schools ceremony type things they have glasses of wine for the parents. If drinking was a sin, they would definitely not have wine at Holy Communion either, because then they would be sinning in church. Imagine that

A lot of things changed since the Old Testament, Christians now follow the New Testament more closely, rather than the Old Testament. But as for your question, no Christian agrees with everything the bible has to say. If they did, I'd be utterly shocked. Plus, I think a lot of times Christians take things from the bible to literally, and confuse their meanings. Such as the saying from the bible - "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth" Some people would say that this saying promotes something such as the death penalty, while other Christians would disagree. There's conflict as to what is and isn't to follow in the bible, and not everyone agrees with everything that it states, or they see a completely different meaning to what it states, and that's completely normal.

[swimmer92]

You are right, no one is perfect. And God knows that, that is why he sent his son to die for our sins, because he knew we cant be perfect. And as for church, you do not have to go even once to be saved, you can never go to church a day in your life but believe Jesus died for our sins and be saved. Personally, I love church, I feel safe and the people there are wonderful, and I love spending time with God in a place where others are doing the same thing. As for drinking, having a drink or two every once in a while is ok. But it does say in the bible "
1 Corinthians 6:10
10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

So if you are an alcoholic it is a sin.

And you are right, many people who have done wrong things go to heaven, our sins are covered with the blood of Jesus if we ask God for forgivness

[Grizabella]

Originally Posted by xHolyValorx

The same thing you believe pretty much.

And remember, Jesus had a problem with authority, and he didn't have a church to go to every Sunday.

But does the fact that he didn't have one necessarily mean he didn't want future Christians to have one? (That's not sarcastic, I actually can't think of any bible references to what he wanted at the moment)

[MadPoet]

Originally Posted by xHolyValorx

And remember, Jesus had a problem with authority, and he didn't have a church to go to every Sunday.

But if he had went to church every Sunday wouldn't it be a bit like worshiping himself, seeing as him and God are one person?

[sturmeskind]

Er, you're protestant, Alisha, aren't you?
If yes, the matter of drinking being a sin would most likely have it's roots in a historical, rather then a strictly religious matter. I'm not going to start on the Temperance movement in detail (it's 2 a.m.), but drinking became a sin in protestant dominations in the US after women speaking up against domestic abuse, drunk men being unable to work and Irish immigrants being scary.

I don't believe in any religion as such, even if I'm baptised Lutheran. I don't believe in heaven or hell. I've read the Bible and parts of it are great.
I think the most likely expression for me might be Humanist. I believe in the good in people.

[PerfectSin]

Originally Posted by trying_to_get_control

Okay, so I completely believe in God, don't get me wrong. I believe in most of what the Holy Bible says, and I know there is a heaven and hell. And I do believe that you can sin, and to get to heaven you need forgiveness. But I do not believe that going to church every Sunday and Wednesday is the correct thing. I don't think it is wrong, and I wouldn't mind going to church a little more regular anyway, but still, I don't believe that "drinking" is a sin, and that to get to heaven you have to be perfect. I don't believe there is perfect, I believe many people who have done wrong things have still got to heaven...

What's your opinion?

It's not necessary to go to church, but the purpose of church is to provide fellowship, so that you can go and worship with those that believe in the same thing that you do. Another purpose is to remind you about God and that Sunday shouldn't be the only day that He is in your life, but that you should be keeping Him in your daily life. The other reason is that you go there to learn and understand.

In the Bible, moderation is greatly emphasized in everything. They all drank wine, but they were not drinking it to get drunk.

Proverbs 25:16 If you find honey, eat just enough-too much of it, and you will vomit.

What this is really saying is that you shouldn't have too much of a good thing because it might later effect you negatively. (Too much alcohol, too much food, too much of one person at a time, etc.)

You do not have to be perfect to get into Heaven. In the Bible it says in John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

Read the Bible, practice prayer, pray for forgiveness, accept Jesus. Those are the main things Christians believe... there are of course other things, but you learn them along the way.

Hope that helped a little!

[Brandon]

I believe in God. I don't know why I believe in God, but I also don't know why I shouldn't believe in God. Nothing spiritual has happened to me, nor do I expect it too. Over the years, I've asked God to show signs that He exists, but it's never happened. I believe in Him even if there's no evidence to support that He exists. But I don't care!

I pray sometimes asking God to keep my family safe and happy, but I mostly pray because I like to sorta...keep in touch. In my opinion, I believe that I'll go to Heaven. I've probably sinned millions of times throughout my life, but I think that the most important thing is that I believe in God and I pray to let Him know from time to time that He's still a part of me.

I don't read the bible and all that shit, but I think I'll still go to Heaven.

[Gixxers rock]

So essentially you believe everything in christianity, except the bits the incoviniance you?

[Pelios]

I agree with you
Ephesians 5:18
"And do not get drunk on wine, in which lies debauchery, but be filled with the Spirit'
Don't get filled with alcohol, be filled with the Holy Spirit.

[vee_vee]

Originally Posted by trying_to_get_control

Okay, so I completely believe in God, don't get me wrong. I believe in most of what the Holy Bible says, and I know there is a heaven and hell. And I do believe that you can sin, and to get to heaven you need forgiveness. But I do not believe that going to church every Sunday and Wednesday is the correct thing. I don't think it is wrong, and I wouldn't mind going to church a little more regular anyway, but still, I don't believe that "drinking" is a sin, and that to get to heaven you have to be perfect. I don't believe there is perfect, I believe many people who have done wrong things have still got to heaven...

What's your opinion?

I think the whole point of God saying you have to be perfect to get into heaven was to show you that you need Jesus. none of us are perfect not one of us. But when Jesus is in you God sees him in us, he doesn't see your sins he throws them as far as the east is from the west (which goes on forever) all he sees is his perfect son in you.

As for the church thing i don't think that going to church consistently ornot going consistently is wrong. But God does say he wants us to fellowship with our brothers and sisters in christ, because he knows we need encouragement, but it doesn't mean you have to go to church 2 times a week. It could be just you and a few of your friends meeting maybe even every couple weeks. At a coffee shop or the park, doing a little devotion together. The thing is we do need the pastors at church because they help us to interpret things in the word that we wouldn't off the top of our heads know or understand. especially when it comes to hebrew culture of the day as it pretains to the word and how it was written.

[Algernon]

Drinking is a sin once It invades your thought processes. Once you can't decyfer between right and wrong, you're in trouble. Remember the story of Noah, who got drunk, then got naked, which was a sin?

[Grizabella]

Originally Posted by xHolyValorx

Drinking is a sin once It invades your thought processes. Once you can't decyfer between right and wrong, you're in trouble. Remember the story of Noah, who got drunk, then got naked, which was a sin?

Actually, it doesn't seem that Noah was sinning, as there's nothing in Genesis 9 to suggest he should be criticized for his behaviour. It's his son, Ham who is punished and said to be sinning when he sees Noah (sometimes suggested as homoesexual acts, not going to go there)

[Oiseau the Little Bird!]

Originally Posted by xHolyValorx

Drinking is a sin once It invades your thought processes. Once you can't decyfer between right and wrong, you're in trouble. Remember the story of Noah, who got drunk, then got naked, which was a sin?

Wasn't that when his daughters were like, "oh shit, we're the only ones left?" and thought that they were left to procreate with their dad? That seems a little unfair. God plays a cruel hand :[

[Grizabella]

Originally Posted by Oiseau the Little Bird!

Wasn't that when his daughters were like, "oh shit, we're the only ones left?" and thought that they were left to procreate with their dad? That seems a little unfair. God plays a cruel hand :[

I believe that was Lot.

[Gixxers rock]

Originally Posted by Oiseau the Little Bird!

Wasn't that when his daughters were like, "oh shit, we're the only ones left?" and thought that they were left to procreate with their dad? That seems a little unfair. God plays a cruel hand :[

I think I stopped reading the bible after that exact part. And no that wasn't noah.

[SillyEvee]

Yep, the story of the daughters is Lot's. His wife got turned into a pillar of salt, so his daughters decided to take up the task of bearing children for her. And G-d disapproved.
I'd never heard the homosexual slant to the naked-Noah story before. It's just immodest to see your parents' nakedness. That's the only wrongdoing in that whole story. Ham should have knocked before he entered Noah's room. If he had, he'd have heard some kind of drunken moan from Noah and known not to enter! :P It's part honouring your father and mother and part laws of modesty.
Now of course, I've gone and ruined your "not gonna go there" bit. Sorry...

[Grizabella]

I don't know how common it is among Christian belief, and there isn't any consensus, but there are people who say they think there's hints Ham raped Noah. Personally I don't see it, but it is a theory. It's explained here:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibg1.htm

[TheKnight]

Originally Posted by trying_to_get_control

Okay, so I completely believe in God, don't get me wrong. I believe in most of what the Holy Bible says, and I know there is a heaven and hell. And I do believe that you can sin, and to get to heaven you need forgiveness. But I do not believe that going to church every Sunday and Wednesday is the correct thing. I don't think it is wrong, and I wouldn't mind going to church a little more regular anyway, but still, I don't believe that "drinking" is a sin, and that to get to heaven you have to be perfect. I don't believe there is perfect, I believe many people who have done wrong things have still got to heaven...

What's your opinion?

I, personally, think that this whole "gotta get to heaven" mindset is a problem. Why think "I gotta do what it takes to get to heaven."? Christianity has so ingrained this invalid point into society that one almost must congratulate them.

I think that we should be focused more on a "how can we make where we are now more like heaven" attitude and worry less about getting to "heaven". If God intended for us to be in Heaven He would have made us there. He didn't, he put us here to "work and tend" the garden (which I believe we are still in.) Let's focus on that and I'm sure if we try hard enough then any "heaven" to go to will be inhabited by those who did good.

[SillyEvee]

Originally Posted by TheKnight

I, personally, think that this whole "gotta get to heaven" mindset is a problem. Why think "I gotta do what it takes to get to heaven."? Christianity has so ingrained this invalid point into society that one almost must congratulate them.

I think that we should be focused more on a "how can we make where we are now more like heaven" attitude and worry less about getting to "heaven". If God intended for us to be in Heaven He would have made us there. He didn't, he put us here to "work and tend" the garden (which I believe we are still in.) Let's focus on that and I'm sure if we try hard enough then any "heaven" to go to will be inhabited by those who did good.

That is so deep. It's seriously the best-articulated form I've ever seen of a thought that's been bouncing around in my head mostly incoherently. Incoherently--much like that last sentence. What I mean is: I've felt that way, too, but have not found words anywhere near as concise and well-defined as those. Personally, that's how I try to live my life.

I find it interesting, though, how so many religions tend to focus so much on a life after this one that'll be better if we do ________. It's a really common theme. The blank seems to change often, though.

Jessica:
Wow. That's totally weird. I'd never heard of anything like that before. It seems so...unfounded. What motivation could Ham possibly have to do that? Thanks for elaborating...

[TheKnight]

Originally Posted by SillyEvee

That is so deep. It's seriously the best-articulated form I've ever seen of a thought that's been bouncing around in my head mostly incoherently. Incoherently--much like that last sentence. What I mean is: I've felt that way, too, but have not found words anywhere near as concise and well-defined as those. Personally, that's how I try to live my life.

I find it interesting, though, how so many religions tend to focus so much on a life after this one that'll be better if we do ________. It's a really common theme. The blank seems to change often, though.

I know what you mean. It's one reason why I love Judaism so much, because it's just so awesome to have a religion that is focused on the here and now. On doing good to other people because it's good and making the world a better place as opposed to thinking about heaven. What good is it, us even coming here in the first place, if we were meant to go to heaven instead of making this place heaven?