Abortion?

[Maverick.]

I voted neither. I don't like talking about abortion, it's just a dead end street.

My parents, (mom is pakistani, dad is african american) were very young when they had me. They decided to put me up for adoption and I lived with my foster family who were Greek. With mainly the help of facebook, years later I located both my birth mother and father. I also got to meet more of my biological family members.

Growing up it was extremely hard living with a white foster family. I always wondered about my birth family and my birth siblings. etc. Even though the decision to put me up for adoption was probably the better choice, I would have rather been brought up with my birth parents, surrounded with my biological family. Even though this is debatable, I think it has to do with the fact that the way black or asian parents would raise a child, differ than a white family would.

This is my opinion on this so please do not get to worked up about it.

[emma01]

Haven't been following this debate but I will just state my opinion out of the blue.

Pro-Choice. The woman should get to choose what happens to her body.

For those who say the unborn child should have a right, if you think about it - mothers make the decision about what happens to their children up to the age of 16 for most legal consensual things.

For those who say children can be adopted out - have you ever thought of the devastation a child might go through if they find out they were adopted or were the result of a rape? And what about children who grow up in a foster family who just do it for the money - because they are out there.

My mum works with kids who shouldn't have even been born. they are so neglected...they can't even read or write constistantly and are one year off high school. Not fair. If a women falls pregnant but does not want the baby, abortion should be an option.

really, if you are pro-life, you are forcing your views on others. I think that is wrong in itself!

[Coffee.]

Originally Posted by OMFG!You'reActuallySmart!

Your idea is good but your argument falls apart due to some very large holes. For reference, the USA has a population of approx. 313, 349, 000. Belgium has a population of approx. 11, 007, 020 (3.5% USA population), while Holland has a population of approx. 6, 065, 459 (1.9% USA population). In other words, the problem is your conclusion is certainly explained by the massive differences in population but questionable whether differences in abortion law and sex education can explain your conclusion with such certainty. After all, if there are significantly fewer people in Belgium than the USA, it is expected there would be a lower abortions rate.

Population sizes were obtained from Wikipedia.

Obviously, because of lack of research, but these numbers come for every 1000 women. Abortion rate for women ages 14-44 in Belgium per 1,000 people is seven, abortion rate in the United States for every 1000 women is 21. And where abortion is restricted (example, Chile) it is 50 per 1000. (2003)

Let's also look at a graph for contraceptive use and abortion rates in Russia.


It's just a thought. My statistics knowledge is in the negatives, I don't claim to know more than I do.

[i_like_black]

This is a very complicated subject which always ignites people's passions.

I am not pro-life OR pro-choice. Although if you told me I had to pick one I guess I'd say pro-choice.

I believe in the sanctity of life. I believe life begins at conception.
However, I also believe that there are many reasons - viable, acceptable reasons - for a woman to have an abortion.
Say she was over 40, for example, and still fertile. And accidentally got pregnant. She may not be able to carry the chid healthily to full term. And even then, the age gap between her and the child is ridiculous.

Or say the woman was raped. Imagine if you forced her to carry that child to full term, and forced her to raise it - what about when the child is old enough to ask about its parentage? How would you tell your child that they are the result of a rape? And don't you think the child would feel absolutely terrible about being the result of a heinous crime? And that maybe they would be traumatised?
Whereas, if you allow the mother to abort, you give her some ability to gain some closure, and the potential to raise healthy children in a healthy environment.

Then there's poverty. Children who are raised in poverty. If you yourself are living hand to mouth, i.e., you eat when you can, how are you going to help your child to live healthily? I know that in some countries there are supports for mothers but I also know that in many countries these are incredibly difficult to get hold of and don't count for much.

And finally, faulty contraceptives. Assuming that a woman is using a method of contraception (pill, implant, whatever) and the man is using condoms, this greatly reduces the chance of pregnancy, it doesn't eliminate it altogether. And if people are being responsible about sex and responsible about their bodies, then shouldn't they ALSO be trusted to be responsible to choose whether or not they could raise a healthy child?

And one other point - there are abortions that are performed to prevent the suffering of the child - for example if a genetic test is carried out and shows some massive disability or something that would negatively impact or be life threatening.

So, back to that, I didn't pick pro-life or pro-choice. I think things should be reasoned out before making decisions, but nobody should have to decide to stand on a certain side of a picket line.

[Heretic]

I'm not going to dive too deep into this argument, but I would like to point something out to all of the people who are "pro-life".

No woman WANTS an abortion. There are no women who stroll into an abortion clinic with a smile on their face, looking bright and cheery at the prospect of terminating a pregnancy. Regardless of whether it's right or wrong, a woman gets an abortion because she believes she needs to do it, usually for her own good.

[Guile]

Pro-Mandatory Abortion for certain people.

Prevent genetic disease, overpopulation, and other problems in society.

[Reanimation]

Friends,

We all know that if a woman is raped it's 99% likely it's her own fault for dressing like a slut and acting like a whore. We also know from scripture that if she becomes pregnant she and the rapist must marry (and a little extra coin for the father).

Deuteronomy 22:28-29

28If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;

29Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

Win / Win!!! Praise Jesus, everyone walks away happy and a new loving family is created!!

The sad part is that in this day and age liberals are making baby Jesus cry with their disregard for human life; mass abortions. We all know life starts at conception, and that the Bible tells us killing is wrong (especially a helpless single celled embryo just conceived). I am delighted to see one such Conservative standing up for Jesus (and the Bible) and taking a stand!!!!!

That man is Rick Santorum!!

[Coffee.]

Originally Posted by Reanimation

Friends,

We all know that if a woman is raped it's 99% likely it's her own fault for dressing like a slut and acting like a whore. We also know from scripture that if she becomes pregnant she and the rapist must marry (and a little extra coin for the father).

Deuteronomy 22:28-29

28If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;

29Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

Win / Win!!! Praise Jesus, everyone walks away happy and a new loving family is created!!

The sad part is that in this day and age liberals are making baby Jesus cry with their disregard for human life; mass abortions. We all know life starts at conception, and that the Bible tells us killing is wrong (especially a helpless single celled embryo just conceived). I am delighted to see one such Conservative standing up for Jesus (and the Bible) and taking a stand!!!!!

That man is Rick Santorum!!

...I'm having a hard time deciding if you're being sarcastic? Is this sarcasm?

[Koharuchan]

Originally Posted by Reanimation

Friends,

We all know that if a woman is raped it's 99% likely it's her own fault for dressing like a slut and acting like a whore. We also know from scripture that if she becomes pregnant she and the rapist must marry (and a little extra coin for the father).

Deuteronomy 22:28-29

28If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;

29Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

Win / Win!!! Praise Jesus, everyone walks away happy and a new loving family is created!!

The sad part is that in this day and age liberals are making baby Jesus cry with their disregard for human life; mass abortions. We all know life starts at conception, and that the Bible tells us killing is wrong (especially a helpless single celled embryo just conceived). I am delighted to see one such Conservative standing up for Jesus (and the Bible) and taking a stand!!!!!

That man is Rick Santorum!!

Dear god, please tell me that is sarcasm. Because if it's not, that is fucking HORRIBLE. Rape is the woman's fault? Bullshit! Complete and utter BULLSHIT.

[Tigerlily.]

Originally Posted by Reanimation

Friends,

We all know that if a woman is raped it's 99% likely it's her own fault for dressing like a slut and acting like a whore. We also know from scripture that if she becomes pregnant she and the rapist must marry (and a little extra coin for the father).

Deuteronomy 22:28-29

28If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;

29Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

Win / Win!!! Praise Jesus, everyone walks away happy and a new loving family is created!!

The sad part is that in this day and age liberals are making baby Jesus cry with their disregard for human life; mass abortions. We all know life starts at conception, and that the Bible tells us killing is wrong (especially a helpless single celled embryo just conceived). I am delighted to see one such Conservative standing up for Jesus (and the Bible) and taking a stand!!!!!

That man is Rick Santorum!!

I sincerely hope you are being sarcastic, and as rude as that may seem if you aren't, well I think your post is rather rude if you aren't as well.

[xxxjustyouraveragegirlxxx]

havent read most comments here and havent been following the debate but heres my opinion (not that you care :P )

abortion should be up to the mother until its able to survive outside of the womb because by this point it is a life, before then its jsut the potentioal for life.
i dont belive in god so that does not affect my views
i dont think its murder before such a point as the baby cant survive on its own and from a medical/scientific point of view is more like a parasite that an idependant human being (not my words there just a scientific fact)
i dont howeve think i could personally have an abortion, pure and simple i dont have the strenght to 'kill' my potentioal baby boy or girl, however it is the parents option...

[Sequin]

Personally, I think the only way abortion will ever come to an end is when science/technology advances to the point of rendering the act of abortion obsolete. Until then, it will remain a "hot button" issue and will continue to divide people.

Even though some persons believe it, I don't see how this debate will ever be won by an ethical, religious, feminist, civil rights, human rights, or political argument. It's only going to be solved by science and time.

^ My two cents.

[Solivagant]

Originally Posted by Reanimation

Friends,

We all know that if a woman is raped it's 99% likely it's her own fault for dressing like a slut and acting like a whore. We also know from scripture that if she becomes pregnant she and the rapist must marry (and a little extra coin for the father).

I hope that the poster answers my questions-
- A woman wearing shorts gets raped, it is her fault (according to you). A man wearing shorts gets raped, whose fault is it?

-A homeless, drunk, thief rapes your sister. Will you let her marry the rapist?

[Doodle.]

I don't believe it's a "baby", it's a foetus, they're two different things.

I don't really get it when people say abortion is wrong but it's okay if a woman is raped. Isn't that still a "baby" in your eyes? It's not the "baby's" fault.

I think the man should be more involved in making the choice though. It's his future child too. I know the woman is carrying it but it takes two to get pregnant.

Originally Posted by Reanimation

Friends,

We all know that if a woman is raped it's 99% likely it's her own fault for dressing like a slut and acting like a whore. We also know from scripture that if she becomes pregnant she and the rapist must marry (and a little extra coin for the father).

Deuteronomy 22:28-29

28If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;

29Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

Win / Win!!! Praise Jesus, everyone walks away happy and a new loving family is created!!

The sad part is that in this day and age liberals are making baby Jesus cry with their disregard for human life; mass abortions. We all know life starts at conception, and that the Bible tells us killing is wrong (especially a helpless single celled embryo just conceived). I am delighted to see one such Conservative standing up for Jesus (and the Bible) and taking a stand!!!!!

That man is Rick Santorum!!

Please tell me you're taking the piss My friend got raped when she was 12 and I will tell you NOW that she didn't dress provocatively.

Not everyone believes in God or the bible -_____-

Ugh, I feel like being sick

Originally Posted by Reanimation

Friends,

We all know that if a woman is raped it's 99% likely it's her own fault for dressing like a slut and acting like a whore. We also know from scripture that if she becomes pregnant she and the rapist must marry (and a little extra coin for the father).

Deuteronomy 22:28-29

28If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;

29Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

Yes, because I am sure you always follow the book of Deuteronomy to the letter, too.


Aside from that:

I actually don't like the terms "pro-life" and "pro-choice." I think that they cover opposite extremes, and leave no room for the very large gray area in the middle.

Here's the deal: I'm with people on the fact that the fetus is a life. It's not a VIABLE life up until 23 weeks, but it's still life, if you go by the definition biology does, which is that cell division is an indicator of life. So, theoretically, it's a life from the moment of conception.

It develops quickly, too. It has a heartbeat at four weeks, and brain wave activity at five. That's often before many women even find out they are pregnant. And, a termination (I think the word "abortion") is so heated and politically charged) of pregnancy is allowed, in most states, up until the twelfth week. At this time the baby has developed reflexes and has rapidly growing brain activity.

So yes, the baby is a life. And, presumably, if left alone it will grow to be an actual functioning human baby.

However, this is a life that is forming WITHIN another life. A life form that is already fully developed and independently functioning has rights established in the constitution of the United States.

The United States is a very sexist country, as evidenced by the recent fights done by middle-aged white men, who don't have a vagina and probably don't even really know how female reproduction works, about women's bodies. This includes ALL aspects of sexual health, not just pregnancy termination.

So, this new life is growing within another life. And here's what I believe: I do not believe you can take away the rights of a woman to her own body. Sure, it's easy to do on paper. Because obviously it can become impersonal on paper.

But this is what they are really telling a woman to do:

* They're asking her to involuntarily go through nine months, during which her body will experience many changes and side effects, many of which are not pleasant

* PAY for all of that care because, even if she can't afford it, because, well, it would be really silly to give people good health insurance, wouldn't it?

* To face possible severe complications that COULD result in irreparable injury or death

* To do all of this regardless of socioeconomic status, cultural status, religious beliefs, emotional health, physical health, conception circumstances and, oh yeah basic human rights!

I wonder how all those politicians would like it if we had to tell them that ALL of them had to get a vasectomy. Doesn't matter if you want more children, you have to do it. Well, nope, protecting the population problem is much more important than your very personal decision to have a family. Your wife? Oh no, she doesn't have to do anything about it. She's a woman. You're a mere MAN. Silly men, don't you know we got this covered!

But it's not a two way street, is it?

See the thing is, you can't say "well, abortion is okay in these circumstances, but not others." You can't pick and choose. It's like being sexual as a teenager but saying you aren't REALLY. "Oh, well, it's okay if I give you a blow job, and I guess you can touch me down there, but it's DEFINITELY not okay to actually have sex!"

Doesn't work that way, does it?

So here's the deal: I believe that a fetus is a life. I do. But I also believe that human beings have rights that should never be violated. In this case, the fetus is growing inside the mother. The mother did not MAKE conception happen. She didn't connect the sperm to the egg and make it actually travel down the fallopian tubes and implant on her uterine wall. Even if she didn't use birth control, she still was not ACTUALLY responsible for the fertilization of the egg. That's just damn biology.


That baby is inside HER body. It belongs to HER. It's HER body to take care of. She should NEVER be told what she can and can't do with it. She should NEVER be CRIMINALIZED for making a choice about her body.

And the fact that the government wants to stick it's nose between her legs is pretty sickening. Because they obviously don't have enough to worry about without deciding how, when and where people can fuck.

[Lugez]

I skimmed through a couple pages and this one. Sorry if these points have been covered.

It really all depends on whether a) you view the fetus as being human and b) whether this fetus/human deserves to be protected by the same rights as everyone else.

I've read through the thread a bit, and I don't get why people bring in the issue of "a woman can do what she wants with her body." That's not the point being argued here. The issue is the baby, not the mother. Is it right to kill a fetus?

But yeah, I'm pro choice. Mainly because I don't really care enough about the issue. Do what you want.

[girlfromsocal]

I'd never be in a situation where abortion would seem like a choice unless it was rape. I agree it should only be in the case of a lifethreatening situation like ectopic pregnancy. For me I'm really never ok with it. Then again I don't plan to ever possibly get pregnant until I'm 23 or 24 maybe 22 earliest. By then I should have my career set with a long term bf/husband because I wouldn't put myself in that type of risk otherwise. If I were raped I'd keep it and place it for adoption or parent matters the situation. Embryos never rape women. They shouldn't be punished the beast who did it should be no one else is at fault for what a rapist does. It's taking accountability from where it belongs. I am a survivor myself of sexual abuse so don't even give me that shit about not empathizing...


I believe almost all abortions are wrong... And only seek to help one side of a situation of a two side situation...

[FriendZoneMayor]

Morally, I'm pro-life. I believe a child becomes a baby at conception, but that's my belief and I'm not going to try to force anyone to agree with me. I'm against abortion, because I believe it's murder, as it does end a life, at least according to my beliefs.
Now, having said that, I would never vote to ban abortion, because to believe that a ban on abortion would lower the abortion rate would be naive of me. I'd rather lose one life than two, so I'd rather a girl/woman go to a clinic to have a safe abortion than say, go to a back alley and stick a coathanger inside them or have someone punch them in the stomach behind the high school football field.

[Laurasaurus]

Originally Posted by Reanimation

Friends,

We all know that if a woman is raped it's 99% likely it's her own fault for dressing like a slut and acting like a whore. We also know from scripture that if she becomes pregnant she and the rapist must marry (and a little extra coin for the father).

Deuteronomy 22:28-29

28If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;

29Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

Win / Win!!! Praise Jesus, everyone walks away happy and a new loving family is created!!

The sad part is that in this day and age liberals are making baby Jesus cry with their disregard for human life; mass abortions. We all know life starts at conception, and that the Bible tells us killing is wrong (especially a helpless single celled embryo just conceived). I am delighted to see one such Conservative standing up for Jesus (and the Bible) and taking a stand!!!!!

That man is Rick Santorum!!

I think I'm going to hurl...
If this wasn't sarcasm, can this person be banned?

[til'death]

I am absolutely, 100% against abortion... I would do everything in my power to talk a women out of it... with that being said... I would NEVER EVER take that right away from a woman.

As much as I know about the pain it causes in the long run, and the extensive counselling thousands of women who have had abortions have to go through to cope with their decision... I as a human being can understand the desire to want to have the choice MY CHOICE.

post birth abortion (Infant genocide) is a whole nother sickening situation, and I think that idea should be attacked and shot down... and women should have rights over their own bodies. PERIOD.

plus if abortion was illegal, women would put their lives at risk to have people do it in dirty places, and have uneducated people perform them, it would cause a whole new level of pain and suffering.

people should educate themselves 100% before making any life decisions.

I believe life starts at conception and I have 2 beautiful children that proves my theory. If it wasn't life when it was created, it wouldn't be life now.

[til'death]

Originally Posted by MacGuffin

Yes, because I am sure you always follow the book of Deuteronomy to the letter, too.


Aside from that:

I actually don't like the terms "pro-life" and "pro-choice." I think that they cover opposite extremes, and leave no room for the very large gray area in the middle.

Here's the deal: I'm with people on the fact that the fetus is a life. It's not a VIABLE life up until 23 weeks, but it's still life, if you go by the definition biology does, which is that cell division is an indicator of life. So, theoretically, it's a life from the moment of conception.

It develops quickly, too. It has a heartbeat at four weeks, and brain wave activity at five. That's often before many women even find out they are pregnant. And, a termination (I think the word "abortion") is so heated and politically charged) of pregnancy is allowed, in most states, up until the twelfth week. At this time the baby has developed reflexes and has rapidly growing brain activity.

So yes, the baby is a life. And, presumably, if left alone it will grow to be an actual functioning human baby.

However, this is a life that is forming WITHIN another life. A life form that is already fully developed and independently functioning has rights established in the constitution of the United States.

The United States is a very sexist country, as evidenced by the recent fights done by middle-aged white men, who don't have a vagina and probably don't even really know how female reproduction works, about women's bodies. This includes ALL aspects of sexual health, not just pregnancy termination.

So, this new life is growing within another life. And here's what I believe: I do not believe you can take away the rights of a woman to her own body. Sure, it's easy to do on paper. Because obviously it can become impersonal on paper.

But this is what they are really telling a woman to do:

* They're asking her to involuntarily go through nine months, during which her body will experience many changes and side effects, many of which are not pleasant

* PAY for all of that care because, even if she can't afford it, because, well, it would be really silly to give people good health insurance, wouldn't it?

* To face possible severe complications that COULD result in irreparable injury or death

* To do all of this regardless of socioeconomic status, cultural status, religious beliefs, emotional health, physical health, conception circumstances and, oh yeah basic human rights!

I wonder how all those politicians would like it if we had to tell them that ALL of them had to get a vasectomy. Doesn't matter if you want more children, you have to do it. Well, nope, protecting the population problem is much more important than your very personal decision to have a family. Your wife? Oh no, she doesn't have to do anything about it. She's a woman. You're a mere MAN. Silly men, don't you know we got this covered!

But it's not a two way street, is it?

See the thing is, you can't say "well, abortion is okay in these circumstances, but not others." You can't pick and choose. It's like being sexual as a teenager but saying you aren't REALLY. "Oh, well, it's okay if I give you a blow job, and I guess you can touch me down there, but it's DEFINITELY not okay to actually have sex!"

Doesn't work that way, does it?

So here's the deal: I believe that a fetus is a life. I do. But I also believe that human beings have rights that should never be violated. In this case, the fetus is growing inside the mother. The mother did not MAKE conception happen. She didn't connect the sperm to the egg and make it actually travel down the fallopian tubes and implant on her uterine wall. Even if she didn't use birth control, she still was not ACTUALLY responsible for the fertilization of the egg. That's just damn biology.


That baby is inside HER body. It belongs to HER. It's HER body to take care of. She should NEVER be told what she can and can't do with it. She should NEVER be CRIMINALIZED for making a choice about her body.

And the fact that the government wants to stick it's nose between her legs is pretty sickening. Because they obviously don't have enough to worry about without deciding how, when and where people can fuck.

This is exactly how my brain is thinking, but with a few more emotions...
I believe that baby is HER baby and it's HER choice what she does with it... but my point on post birth abortion. Once that baby is born it has it's own human rights, also I believe women who purposefully do not take care of themselves and do things that could damage their babies development while they are pregnant and lets say their child is born with fetal alcohol syndrome... that baby should NOT stay with it's mother. I would never have an abortion but I wouldn't take that right away from another women who thinks it is the best decision for them... I hope I make sense.

What do you mean by post-birth abortions?

[til'death]

Originally Posted by MacGuffin

What do you mean by post-birth abortions?

There is a movement right now of people trying to promote after birth abortions (infanticide). Saying that Infants aren't people because they have no recognition of who they are or what they're becoming... there for it should be "okay" for mother or father to end their life even after they are born.

They argue that it should be legal because What if that baby's existence in the family directly effects those already existing in the family's well-being. IE - The parents cannot afford another child, the child is born with a disability....

Isn't take what abortion is for... those women and families who are not yet ready, or capable of brings a child into the world... or maybe another. Or fetal screenings... those tell you what disabilities your baby may have and you have the option to terminate... Why wait until after birth....

infanticide is murder, really murder... not a bunch of emotional people calling it murder. *cough* pro lifers *cough*

Here's a link : http://www.slate.com/articles/health...anticide_.html

[i_like_black]

Originally Posted by MacGuffin

What do you mean by post-birth abortions?

I think she's referring to either neonaticide or infanticide. There are wiki articles for both if you're not sure what they are. I wouldn't refer to it as "post-birth abortion" though, it's an entirely different thing and not really relevant to this thread - which is about abortion, implying it's about in utero termination.

[dr2005]

Originally Posted by MacGuffin

In this case, the fetus is growing inside the mother. The mother did not MAKE conception happen. She didn't connect the sperm to the egg and make it actually travel down the fallopian tubes and implant on her uterine wall. Even if she didn't use birth control, she still was not ACTUALLY responsible for the fertilization of the egg. That's just damn biology.

I feel this is where a logical hiccup occurs. While the mother may indeed have no control over the biological processes, none of them would take place but for (in most cases at least) a conscious choice by both father and mother to engage in unprotected sex, and subsequently not using emergency contraceptives. But for that conscious act, none of the aforementioned would happen. You appear to be implying a break in the causal chain where none exists. It's on the same scale as saying that because the President of the United States isn't in control of the processes of nuclear fission, it's not his responsibility if he presses the button on a nuke and blows up North Korea (for example). It just doesn't add up.

Originally Posted by MacGuffin

That baby is inside HER body. It belongs to HER. It's HER body to take care of. She should NEVER be told what she can and can't do with it.

Forgive me if this sounds a bit dramatic, but I found this statement quite chilling. At no point is a human being the property of another - end of story. We may well have had that mindset a few centuries ago, but not any more. The foetus is a genetically unique individual, 50% the mother's DNA and 50% the father's, and while they jointly have responsibility for it (in my view at least) from gestation to birth they do not at any stage own it. I trust this is not what you were implying, because otherwise I will readily admit I am very alarmed by that notion. If you don't see why, consider the implications of that logic in relation to cases of child abuse, where someone could easily argue it's their "property" to treat as they wish...

[OMFG!You'reActuallySmart!]

Originally Posted by MacGuffin

It has a heartbeat at four weeks, and brain wave activity at five.

This is just petty details but a heartbeat begins at the third week. More importantly, reflexes aren't present that early on, unless you have reputable evidence to suggest otherwise.

Originally Posted by MacGuffin

The mother did not MAKE conception happen. She didn't connect the sperm to the egg and make it actually travel down the fallopian tubes and implant on her uterine wall. Even if she didn't use birth control, she still was not ACTUALLY responsible for the fertilization of the egg. That's just damn biology.

You're stumbling over your feet because you've made the claim that women are not responsible or did not make unconscious physiological processes happen in their bodies. In other words, it's the same as saying women are not responsible for feeling hungry, reacting by eating food and digesting the food.

Originally Posted by MacGuffin

That baby is inside HER body. It belongs to HER. It's HER body to take care of. She should NEVER be told what she can and can't do with it. She should NEVER be CRIMINALIZED for making a choice about her body.

You're implying the fetus shares 100% DNA with its mother in order for it to be considered part of her body. The father plays a large role in the creation of the fetus but somehow the fetus shares none of his DNA? Even though the fetus is inside the mother, it is best thought of as a parasite in that it extracts nutrition from the mother, relies on her protection and so forth as it grows inside of her despite any discomfort and medical complications she faces as a result.

Originally Posted by tilldeath

post birth abortion (Infant genocide) is a whole nother sickening situation, and I think that idea should be attacked and shot down... and women should have rights over their own bodies. PERIOD.

I agree with the notion that women should have rights of their bodies but I'm confused whether you're trying to draw parallels between abortion and infanticide, or if you're going on a tangent?

[FriendZoneMayor]

Originally Posted by Reanimation

Friends,

We all know that if a woman is raped it's 99% likely it's her own fault for dressing like a slut and acting like a whore. We also know from scripture that if she becomes pregnant she and the rapist must marry (and a little extra coin for the father).

Okay, I hope you're kidding. Seriously. And I know it's not the same, but when I was 16, I was at my friend's house hanging out before church. I was wearing jeans and a hoodie (it was late fall) and playing video games when my friend molested me. Tell me I deserved it. I dare you. [is irate at this point]

[The Goblins Blade]

Originally Posted by FriendZoneMayor

Okay, I hope you're kidding. Seriously. And I know it's not the same, but when I was 16, I was at my friend's house hanging out before church. I was wearing jeans and a hoodie (it was late fall) and playing video games when my friend molested me. Tell me I deserved it. I dare you. [is irate at this point]

No point, thats the only post the user has made. They have not returned since.

[blurryface]

Here's my opinion on it:

I am against abortion in every situation EXCEPTING: rape or health problems. Personally, if I was raped (after having gone through sexual abuse as a child) I would not want my rapist's baby. I couldn't even give it up for adoption, because I couldn't deal with the fact that someone else has my rapist's baby. Also, if either my life or my child's life was in danger, I would abort. Think this is wrong if you will, but I wouldn't even die for my child. If I were to die and my child would live, I wouldn't want my kid to go through that.