Abortion?

[dani99]

I, personally, don't believe abortion is right and I am very pro-life, but I want to see who all thinks what because I'm curious. No, I won't tell you you'll burn in hell for being pro-choice because everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

So, are you pro-life or pro-choice? Why do you feel like this?

Like I said, I personally think that abortion is wrong because there are so many ways to prevent pregnancy and adoption is available. The only time when I think abortion is ok is in life-threatening situation for either the person or the baby. Many people say that it's the woman's body and their choice - but the baby has it's own body - so I don't think women should choose life or death for another human being. Many say that a woman may be miserable during an unwanted pregnancy, but I believe that 9 months of misery is less important than taking away life.

Rape, on the other hand, is also debatable. Some women may not want their rapist's baby while other's want to give the baby a chance, because it's not the baby's fault. Keep in mind that I think abortion is wrong only if it's life threatening. If it's because a woman couldn't be safe enough (and the man, too), then I don't think abortion should be a choice.

What does everyone else believe?

[better-than-ecstasy]

I'm against abortion. Most likely for any reason.

[Henry Tyrell]

I don't believe the "baby" is a baby until the 1st trimester is over and the fetus has even a glimmer of hope of living outside of the womb.

I am pro-choice. What a woman does with her body is her choice, and I myself would pick a woman over a cluster of cells every day of the week.

[chickenonsteroids]

I'm pro choice.

I prefer the woman to have the rights over her body to what she wants with it and be told by the state that she has to have a baby she can't support at all or have a baby that was conceived through rape. It isn't a bad thing if she has an abortion as early as she can. I think most abortions happen at around 12 weeks anyway.

Taking away the mothers rights to do as she wishes with her body is ridiculous and I hope that no body is even considering making abortion illegal. That'd be incredibly stupid.

Yet, I do think that abortion as a late form of contraception is stupid. But unfortunately I think that is the position of those who are against abortion view pro choice as. Waiting until the last minute and just killing the baby.

So yea, I am pro choice but I think that people shouldn't be so reckless as to just abort as frequently as have sex. That's careless no matter how much of a pro choice person you are.

I might as well add, adoption is as viable of an option as many people think. It isn't a case of putting a baby on a list and just hoping a person collects the child in a few weeks.

Furthermore... I'd just like to say that I'm happy i've commented before people start calling pro choice "pro death" "you're like Hitler" (yes... really) "baby killer" "infanticide" etc etc the list goes on.

[Jas]

In the six years I've been around this community I have NEVER seen a pro-choice vs pro-life thread go well on TH. Just fyi.

Which is why I'll say I'm pro-choice and leave it at that.

[chickenonsteroids]

Originally Posted by Jas

In the six years I've been around this community I have NEVER seen a pro-choice vs pro-life thread go well on TH. Just fyi.

Do any pro life vs pro choice debates turn out ok?

[bitesize]

Pro-choice.

[dani99]

But aren't we are technically a bundle of cells? The only difference is that we're bigger bundles and have more ability to do things such as breathe. But, as early as 6 weeks, that bundle has a heart beat and by the third month, the fetus already has arms, legs, toes, and hands and such. More importantly, it has 46 chromosomes just like you and me. Technically, just a younger and not fully developed human being.

Technically, no, it's not a "baby" yet - but it is a fetus and is still classified at a human. It's zygote, blastocyst, fetus, baby, toddler, child, teenager, adult, and then elderly. Those are the stages of a human - and the thing inside a woman is a living thing. So, why should she get to right to end another person's life?

I'm not here to bash anyone. Opinions are opinions. I'll disagree, but I won't call anyone a baby killer around here.

[¯|_(ツ)_|¯]

I'm pro-life except in cases where there will be considerable damage to the mother or child if the pregnancy were to continue (such as if it was life threatening) or in cases of rape.

[Stargazed.]

Pro-choice. Every woman is entitled to make her own decision about her body and her baby. No, I would never get an abortion myself -- but that doesn't mean I'm going to judge anyone who feels like it's the right decision for them.

[dani99]

What Dez says is what I go with. If it's life threatening, I don't think a woman should have to put her life in danger. But if there won't be any harm, then why rid of life? Life is precious, that's what I think. I believe that the "child" should have a chance at life.

[Coffee.]

Very. very, very pro-choice. I do not believe life begins at conception, and I believe abortion has saved many women's lives. I also care about born people; there are so many problems in the world, yet people are so hung up on life that we can't even agree is life. There are people dying in my country, the United States of America, from starvation, there are people being raped and abused in their homes, and outside our country, even more horror is going on. So why do we care so much to get into the personal liberty of individuals just to care for a this?

[dani99]

I believe that life begins as conception - but by the time a woman even know's she's pregnant, she's at least half way through the first month. Cells are already forming into things like the head, hands, fingers, toes, feet, arms, legs, toenails, a heart, ect. So, by that time, I think it should for sure be considered life by around 2-3 weeks (and most women don't even know until after that, even!)

[Imagine849]

Originally Posted by Le bonheur*

Pro-choice. Every woman is entitled to make her own decision about her body and her baby. No, I would never get an abortion myself -- but that doesn't mean I'm going to judge anyone who feels like it's the right decision for them.

Completely agree with that ^^

[chickenonsteroids]

Originally Posted by dani99

I believe that life begins as conception - but by the time a woman even know's she's pregnant, she's at least half way through the first month. Cells are already forming into things like the head, hands, fingers, toes, feet, arms, legs, toenails, a heart, ect. So, by that time, I think it should for sure be considered life by around 2-3 weeks (and most women don't even know until after that, even!)

Are you sure you mean life of the potential of life? The baby could not survive outside the mothers womb at that stage and that is why the abortion limit is at 24 weeks (in the UK anyway)

[dani99]

Just because it isn't able to survive outside of the womb on it's own doesn't mean it doesn't have life.

[thebigmole]

So incredibly and unbelievably pro-choice. As pro-choice as a person can be. And I mean no offense because I do not know you, but I am not a fan of the pro-life stance at all. I find it incredibly self centered to think that every woman should line by your own personal, not backed up with facts, beliefs. While an embryo is indeed human it is not a human. My liver is human but it's not a human there is a big difference. And a human should have more rights than something that simply has the potential to become a human.

[dani99]

But, it still has 46 chromosomes. It's still made of cells. It's still living. It just hasn't reached a state of development where it can survive outside of the womb. A woman shouldn't go and end her child's life because of her lack of responsibility (this doesn't include rape).

[Coffee.]

Conception isn't 2-3 weeks after sex. It's right afterwards. Some things that birth control do get rid of conceived eggs. Women's bodies naturally get rid of conceived eggs that are unfit to be in the womb, even after the point that you would even consider it as a miscarriage because it'd during the month and it's just a heavier period. At what point is it "some cells" or "a life?" At what point do we sacrifice the safety and liberty of the mom for the cells? Because the "conception" stuff doesn't make sense.

If you believe life begins at conception, do what you want. Get off birth control, and don't have abortions. But why should your personal beliefs affect the entire country?

[thebigmole]

Originally Posted by dani99

But, it still has 46 chromosomes. It's still made of cells. It's still living. It just hasn't reached a state of development where it can survive outside of the womb. A woman shouldn't go and end her child's life because of her lack of responsibility (this doesn't include rape).

You didn't address my main point, but to address yours: You do realize that a lot of the time people use contraceptives and they still get pregnant. You can still get pregnant on the pill, and you can still get pregnant using a condom. It does happen. Why should we punish everyone else because some women are irresponsible with birth control? And again my heart is living, and it's made of cells but that doesn't make it a human being.

[dani99]

I never said that conception started at 2-3 weeks. I said that normally people don't know they're pregnant until around then. But, the mother has her own body and the child has it's own body. The mother can do what she wants with her body, but she should leave the child be. If it's not going to kill her or harm her life in any way, why rid of the child and take away it's right to live? As a human, although it hasn't fully developed (but still human), it has a right to live unless the mother says so. To me, that's no different than my mother deciding I'm a bother so she wants to kill me.

[thebigmole]

Originally Posted by dani99

I never said that conception started at 2-3 weeks. I said that normally people don't know they're pregnant until around then. But, the mother has her own body and the child has it's own body. The mother can do what she wants with her body, but she should leave the child be. If it's not going to kill her or harm her life in any way, why rid of the child and take away it's right to live? As a human, although it hasn't fully developed (but still human), it has a right to live unless the mother says so. To me, that's no different than my mother deciding I'm a bother so she wants to kill me.

Completely different because a group of cells is not a human. And at the time that abortions are allowed the fetus doesn't really have a body, it's a group of cells with the potential to become a human but it is NOT a person. It doesn't see, or breath, or have emotions, it hasn't lived, it does not get more rights than a full blown human being.

[Coffee.]

I just...don't understand the whole pro-life thing. To me, pro-life would be against war, the death penelty, and even the killing of animals. Are you? I mean, I just don't understand why a conception has more of an important life than PEOPLE. And what about animals? Your so far definition of life is that it has 48 chromosomes. A lot of animals have 48 chromosomes. Potatoes have 48 chromosomes, I kid you not. I mean, what is your definition of a life that deserves to live? "Conceived human, unless in military, the enemy of of the government, or convicted of a crime?"

[dani99]

A person is a person. Two human beings make another human being, not something else. And what about those who abort their child at the time of when the child has eyes, a heart beat, and developing lungs? Is that still ok, because the mother wants it? Is it ok to kill what has beating heart?

[thebigmole]

Originally Posted by dani99

A person is a person. Two human beings make another human being, not something else. And what about those who abort their child at the time of when the child has eyes, a heart beat, and developing lungs? Is that still ok, because the mother wants it? Is it ok to kill what has beating heart?

You are talking about 3rd term abortions. And those already have major restrictions on them. They are only allowed if continuing the pregnancy will kill the mother, or if the child is going to be born with some horrible, fatal, painful disease.

A woman makes an egg, a man makes sperm. That sperm goes into the egg and creates a zygote. That becomes an embryo, which becomes a fetus, which becomes a baby. It is NOT a baby until that stage. And that stage is in the 3rd trimester, which as I've said abortions are only legal in in extreme cases.

[chickenonsteroids]

You'd kill animals right? they were born of two parents... they have a beating heart... if anything a living animal is more human like than a baby at 3 weeks.

To answer your question, yes its still ok to abort the child. Having the baby could lead to a horrible life for the child later on.

[dani99]

Well, I don't have a good life right now. Does that mean it would have been better if I were aborted? No, I'm glad I wasn't. No, I don't kill animals. I'm against killing animals. I can't even step on a bug! Life is precious no matter what.

And no, a heart beat comes in the first trimester. At week 8, I believe, the brain and spinal cord start to develop.

[Coffee.]

I don't know. I just have a different idea of "life." An acorn is not an oak tree. An egg is not a chicken. Burning of a blueprint is not arson. A conceived human egg is not murder. When it gets to the point that you could birth it and it could live on its own, that starts getting into the gray area. But before that? It's a bundle of cells.

Originally Posted by dani99

No, I don't kill animals. I'm against killing animals. I can't even step on a bug! Life is precious no matter what.

So you're vegan? Don't wear leather shoes?

[MadPoet]

Pro-choice. I would never have an abortion, but I don't think it's fair to deny anyone else the right to do so just because you don't agree with it. If the abortion is done at a certain stage, when the baby is not even formed yet, you're not ending a life. Yes, it's the possibility of a life, but it's not a life.

[thebigmole]

Originally Posted by MadPoet

Pro-choice. I would never have an abortion, but I don't think it's fair to deny anyone else the right to do so just because you don't agree with it. If the abortion is done at a certain stage, when the baby is not even formed yet, you're not ending a life. Yes, it's the possibility of a life, but it's not a life.

Thank you. I respect people who are like you sooo much.

Dani I just have one question, why do you feel like your beliefs should govern every other woman?

[dani99]

But why take away the child's chance at living? I just think it's wrong. I don't believe women should have the choice to end another's life (or possibility to live).

[Jack Lowden]

I'm just going to say pro-choice.

[thebigmole]

Originally Posted by dani99

But why take away the child's chance at living? I just think it's wrong. I don't believe women should have the choice to end another's life (or possibility to live).

But you didn't answer my question. Why should we all have to adhere to your beliefs?

[Coffee.]

Chance at living? So should ever ejaculation and ever period be considered death? Those did have the potential of living?

[dani99]

No, because an egg alone cannot someday become living on it's own and same with sperm. But the two together can have it, and in just a matter of months it is considered a living thing. No, it's not just my beliefs. A lot of people feel the same way. That can be a reversed question, too: why should pro-choice stay legalized just because it's your belief?

It's just weird to think that someone like my 4 month baby sister..... about a year ago it was legal to kill her.

[thebigmole]

Originally Posted by dani99

No, because an egg alone cannot someday become living on it's own and same with sperm. But the two together can have it, and in just a matter of months it is considered a living thing. No, it's not just my beliefs. A lot of people feel the same way. That can be a reversed question, too: why should pro-choice stay legalized just because it's your belief?

It's just weird to think that someone like my 4 month baby sister..... about a year ago it was legal to kill her.

Because pro-choice isn't forcing anyone to get an abortion but pro-life is forcing women to have unwanted children. Abortion being legal doesn't force anything on anyone, but making it illegal does.

[dani99]

It forces an innocent child to lose the right to live.

[thebigmole]

Originally Posted by dani99

It forces an innocent child to lose the right to live.

Nope, nope it doesn't. A fetus isn't a child. And just because the option is available doesn't mean that women HAVE to get an abortion.

[dani99]

But those who take that option are taking away the child/fetus/baby's right to live.

[thebigmole]

Originally Posted by dani99

But those who take that option are taking away the child/fetus/baby's right to live.

They aren't technically living yet. Not as a person lives. You are only taking away the right to grow, or become a living thing. But since they aren't really living yet you are not taking away their life. They can't live outside the womb at that point, so they are not living as a person lives. Therefore their "right to life" doesn't trump the rights a woman has to her body.