Triggering: Trayvon Martin-George Zimmerman

[Koharuchan]

Wow. What I'm seeing on that website is bull. Change for Trayvon? I still don't understand why little angel Trayvon is so damned special. Since they're looking to have the laws changed so that this can be prevented, why are they calling it change for Trayvon? Shouldn't it be change for everyone who has lost loved ones in similar situations?

I firmly believe that Zimmerman should walk. Yeah, he was stupid by making the decision to follow him. But I do not believe he attacked the kid. As Ben said, this whole stupid case has been a huge lynch mob of racial shit from the start. And in my opinion, that's just pathetic.

[Maverick.]

New information about the case

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...,5139117.story

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...,7609897.story

[TigerTank77]

That is one hell of a broken nose.

[Maverick.]

New information about the case. Trial is in June.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...,2965144.story

[Ghost On The Highway]

This dude's still kicking around? When I wear a hoody, I want people to think of me as the angel Tyrael from Diablo, not some skinny black dude who picked the wrong fight.

[Maverick.]

New information about the case.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...,1865926.story

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...,5163217.story

[Maverick.]

New Information about the case:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...,6504210.story

[Guile]

MOTHER OF GOD SOMEBODY FINISH THIS CASE ;-;

[thebigmole]

Originally Posted by Guile

MOTHER OF GOD SOMEBODY FINISH THIS CASE ;-;

My thoughts exactly. Though I am worried about the reprocusions when he is found not guilty, because just like the Casey Anthony case they are being to hard with the charges. It should be a voluntary manslaughter case not second degree murder. I know it's a different part of Florida but its really sad they are making the same mistake twice.

[Maverick.]

The difference between this and the Casey Anthony case, she had a damn good lawyer in which they did some under the table secret rendevouz stuff.

This Mark O'Mera jackass is simply that.

George needs to get used to wearing orange jumpsuits.

[Maverick.]

Like I said in my previous post, this Mark O'Mera guy is crazy. He's supposed to be a defense attorney.

As we are just weeks away from the trial, George Zimmerman according to his lawyer will not plead stand your ground.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...0,340410.story

[TigerTank77]

You do realize that Trayvon was smashing the man's head into the pavement and that beyond the bullet wound, he had no wounds except for offensive wounds on his hands, right? That both the police and medical reports also corroborate his side of the story, and that beyond speculation, the Prosecution has very little to refute what the defense is putting forward?

He's going to walk. Prosecution had a long shot with manslaughter, but they chose to make it a trial of public opinion and went with 2nd Degree Murder, the statute of which doesn't fit this crime in the slightest.

[thebigmole]

Originally Posted by TigerTank77

You do realize that Trayvon was smashing the man's head into the pavement and that beyond the bullet wound, he had no wounds except for offensive wounds on his hands, right? That both the police and medical reports also corroborate his side of the story, and that beyond speculation, the Prosecution has very little to refute what the defense is putting forward?

He's going to walk. Prosecution had a long shot with manslaughter, but they chose to make it a trial of public opinion and went with 2nd Degree Murder, the statute of which doesn't fit this crime in the slightest.

I completely agree. Going for 2nd Degree Murder is a huge mistake. That being said Stand Your Ground still wouldn't work because Zimmerman initiated the confrontation by getting out of his car and following Trayvon. He didn't have to do that and therefore put himself in the life threatening situation to begin with. So I do think they would have had a MUCH better shot with manslaughter.

[Maverick.]

Originally Posted by TigerTank77

You do realize that Trayvon was smashing the man's head into the pavement and that beyond the bullet wound, he had no wounds except for offensive wounds on his hands, right? That both the police and medical reports also corroborate his side of the story, and that beyond speculation, the Prosecution has very little to refute what the defense is putting forward?

He's going to walk. Prosecution had a long shot with manslaughter, but they chose to make it a trial of public opinion and went with 2nd Degree Murder, the statute of which doesn't fit this crime in the slightest.

A middle aged man chases a teenage boy when police told his jive ass not to.

My opinion of what went down:

*Zimmerman confronted Trayvon asking why he was in the neighborhood. Probably racially profiling him and provoking the situation.

Trayvon was defending himself like Zimmerman claims he was defending himself despite being armed and heavier.

Zimmerman keeps changing his story. First Trayvon slammed him on the ground, then Trayvon reached for his gun, then Trayvon ran and Zimmerman tackled him. Which story is true?

At the end of the day, Zimmerman disobeyed police so therefore he is going to fry. Mark O'Mera is a terrible attorney. Why is he trying to postpone the trial date from a few weeks from now? Explain that one?

Plus the defense isn't doing stand your ground which basically would have made Zimmerman's chances of freedom higher.

Zimmerman is going to be found guilty given 15 years minimum.

[hocus pocus]

Originally Posted by Koharuchan

Wow. What I'm seeing on that website is bull. Change for Trayvon? I still don't understand why little angel Trayvon is so damned special. Since they're looking to have the laws changed so that this can be prevented, why are they calling it change for Trayvon? Shouldn't it be change for everyone who has lost loved ones in similar situations?

I firmly believe that Zimmerman should walk. Yeah, he was stupid by making the decision to follow him. But I do not believe he attacked the kid. As Ben said, this whole stupid case has been a huge lynch mob of racial shit from the start. And in my opinion, that's just pathetic.

^ This. You see, this happened by where I live. And I agree that it's sad, but this happens everyday. In fact a month ago someone from my old school was shot and killed. If they're going to make a law, it should be for all of the families and people out there suffering from incidents like these.

But that goes for everything, bullying laws, and things like that. I mean, they should have had laws in place to prevent this from happening. They shouldn't have waited until it was too late. I just feel like how many people are going to die before they realize that something needs to me done?

[TigerTank77]

Originally Posted by Maverick.

A middle aged man chases a teenage boy when police told his jive ass not to.

Zimmerman said he was returning to his truck when Trayvon confronted him. There's no account of Zimmerman actually chasing Trayvon down and accosting him, the verbal part of the incident was initiated by Trayvon, who went after Zimmerman to ask him why he was following him.

Originally Posted by Maverick.

My opinion of what went down:

*Zimmerman confronted Trayvon asking why he was in the neighborhood. Probably racially profiling him and provoking the situation.

There's no evidence of rational profiling, the FBI conducted a hate crime investigation and found no evidence of any racism in Zimmerman's actions. There's also, again, no evidence of Zimmerman chasing Trayvon down, but there is a police report backing up Zimmerman's account that Trayvon initiated the confrontation.

Originally Posted by Maverick.

Trayvon was defending himself like Zimmerman claims he was defending himself despite being armed and heavier.

Not only was Zimmerman shorter and in much worse physical shape than Trayvon, you don't defend yourself by starting a confrontation and pinning the other person to the ground and smashing their head in. That's not self defense.

Originally Posted by Maverick.

Zimmerman keeps changing his story. First Trayvon slammed him on the ground, then Trayvon reached for his gun, then Trayvon ran and Zimmerman tackled him. Which story is true?

Considering I've never heard the second story backed up before throughout this entire case, and the police report doesn't back it up, I'm going to go with the one where Zimmerman, being in the shape that he's in, didn't chase down a highly athletic football player.

Originally Posted by Maverick.

At the end of the day, Zimmerman disobeyed police so therefore he is going to fry. Mark O'Mera is a terrible attorney. Why is he trying to postpone the trial date from a few weeks from now? Explain that one?

Dispatcher's aren't police, and don't have law enforcement authority. Regardless, when the dispatcher said they didn't need Zimmerman to follow Trayvon, he said "okay" and then returned to his truck. The notion that Zimmerman chased Trayvon down and tackled him is wild speculation.

Originally Posted by Maverick.

Plus the defense isn't doing stand your ground which basically would have made Zimmerman's chances of freedom higher.

Not if it isn't needed, and again considering the complete lack of evidence the Prosecution has, I don't see how they're going to be able to refute the defense's claim that it was self defense.

Originally Posted by Maverick.

Zimmerman is going to be found guilty given 15 years minimum.

You might want to read up on the statue for Second Degree murder and the SOP of evidence based legal procedure. You can't convict a man on public opinion, which is what this trial has been about since the start.

[Maverick.]

Just to start, I mean no disrespect to you. I think it's awesome that we both have different sides to this and can't wait to see which one of is right. Nevertheless, just as you had to refute my statements, I shall do the same.

Originally Posted by TigerTank77

Zimmerman said he was returning to his truck when Trayvon confronted him. There's no account of Zimmerman actually chasing Trayvon down and accosting him, the verbal part of the incident was initiated by Trayvon, who went after Zimmerman to ask him why he was following him.

According to the 911 call

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aVwPqXc-bk

which is probably going to be the best vital evidence to the prosecution, Zimmerman's main objective was to make sure he got as much information about Trayvon as possible. You can clearly hear wind rustling in the 911 call. Which indicates he's moving at a fast pace. Ergo he's trying to run over to where Trayvon is. In my eyes that's initiating the situation. This thread wouldn't even have been made had Zimmerman stayed in his vehicle.

What evidence do you have that Trayvon started the altercation. I personally don't blame Trayvon. This big overweight man confronts a teenage boy. Of course the teenage boy will feel inferior in some shape or form.

Where is your evidence that George Zimmerman returned to his vehicle after the confrontation?

That is contradictory as I will explain later.

There's no evidence of rational profiling, the FBI conducted a hate crime investigation and found no evidence of any racism in Zimmerman's actions. There's also, again, no evidence of Zimmerman chasing Trayvon down, but there is a police report backing up Zimmerman's account that Trayvon initiated the confrontation.

This whole case is centered around racial fusion. Had Trayvon been white, Zimmerman would have just assumed he was a resident of the community. Because he was not only black but wearing a hooded sweatshirt, Zimmerman just assumed he was up to good. That's racial profiling. It happens to me all the time.

I had night classes and I would catch the bus to get to class. I was running for the bus and the cops pulled me over. Usually running indicates ulterior motives. Racial profiling.

Once again according to the 911 call, Zimmerman is running after Trayvon by the sound of the wind.

Not only was Zimmerman shorter and in much worse physical shape than Trayvon, you don't defend yourself by starting a confrontation and pinning the other person to the ground and smashing their head in. That's not self defense.

This is arguable. Zimmerman is definitely stronger than Trayvon. Trayvon was possibly a couple inches taller than Zimmerman, but Zimmerman had way more muscle tone.

That's neither here nor there how the confrontation started. Zimmerman was told to stay away. He is not the fucking police.

Either way, the bullet was shot in a way to where Trayvon was not on top of him. So when Trayvon did die, Zimmerman was not being tackled by him. Regardless of how he was punched in the nose and slammed in the sidewalk because he confronted a teenage boy.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/05/17...ound-fired-at/

Considering I've never heard the second story backed up before throughout this entire case, and the police report doesn't back it up, I'm going to go with the one where Zimmerman, being in the shape that he's in, didn't chase down a highly athletic football player.

Please understand logic. He didn't chase him down, yet he shot him. His mother lived in the fucking complex area for fuck sake. Boys will be boys. Which entails being boy scouts, basketball teams, football teams, ROTC. So just stop with that bullshit nonsense.

Dispatcher's aren't police, and don't have law enforcement authority. Regardless, when the dispatcher said they didn't need Zimmerman to follow Trayvon, he said "okay" and then returned to his truck. The notion that Zimmerman chased Trayvon down and tackled him is wild speculation.

Once again your opinion is flawed.

According to this video which is taken straight from the jackass mouth, he did not return to his vehicle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX1sxARNq_c

He clearly states after the dispatcher states "You don't need to do that", he continues to venture through the complex. Whether he actually began to walk back to his car or not, he states that Travyon called him over?

Why did he go over to where Trayvon was? Doesn't make a lick of sense.

Why do you think he didn't listen to the dispatcher? Because he wanted to prove a point. He is a neighborhood watchman. His job is to report and observe. Not venture out and be rental police. He was racially stereotyping a teenage boy assuming he was burglarizing homes when that wasn't at all the case. Not to mention he was armed. So basically he had an agenda. Possibly egging him on by stalking him and following him through the complex.

(Referring to Stand Your ground not being used)

Not if it isn't needed, and again considering the complete lack of evidence the Prosecution has, I don't see how they're going to be able to refute the defense's claim that it was self defense.

Yes it is. The reason Zimmerman was basically able to go scott free after a few months or so after the shooting is because of stand your ground. You are able to use firearm protection if the case if believed to be self defense. THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY FELT THIS WAS NOT A SELF DEFENSE ISSUE AND NOT ONLY PROSECUTED AND ARRESTED ZIMMERMAN, BUT SLAMMED A SECOND DEGREE MURDER TAG ON HIM.

In any other state such as California, New York etc, Zimmerman would have been arrested and possibly charged with a hate crime due to the witnesses. If possible, he would be posted bail. But come trial, it's up for the jury to prove him guilty or not guilty.

The fact that stand your ground is not being used is very good news for the prosecution. Zimmerman instigated the issue by confronting a child, acting like a fake policeman and even though he might not have decided, "Today I'm going to kill a random hoodlum soliciting through the complex", in some shapely form, he lived up to it.

You might want to read up on the statue for Second Degree murder and the SOP of evidence based legal procedure. You can't convict a man on public opinion, which is what this trial has been about since the start.

He will have a trial by jury. If the jury convicts him of guilty, with it being a second degree murder charge. In sentencing, he will give or take get 15 years as the most minimum sentence. Maybe parole in 8 if he behaves himself and befriends the black inmates or some shit like that.

The sad part is now this is a weak possibility, but Zimmerman might have had a better chance had he had a better attorney, had he not done all these contradictory interviews and "reenactments", had they not switched judges, tried to overturn his charge, and most of all they keep trying to push back the trial date. They are scared because prosecution is like me and they have secret information that will make Zimmerman fry.

Once again I appreciate this debate. I'm looking forward to your responses.

I'm also going to be posting more and more events as the trial is in less than three weeks.

[TigerTank77]

Originally Posted by Maverick.

Just to start, I mean no disrespect to you. I think it's awesome that we both have different sides to this and can't wait to see which one of is right. Nevertheless, just as you had to refute my statements, I shall do the same.

Sounds good. Mock trial? Mock trial. Hahaha.

Originally Posted by Maverick.

You can clearly hear wind rustling in the 911 call. Which indicates he's moving at a fast pace.

At 1:43 in the video, you can hear the sound of a beeping noise generally made by a vehicle who's doors are open when the engine/lights are on, and it does sound like George is moving. However, at 2:00, after the dispatcher tells Zimmerman that they don't need him to follow Martin, the "wind" noise starts to die down, and it's completely gone by the 2:15 mark. So he's either walking, or standing still. Neither of those two options would allow him to "chase down" Martin.

That being said, what if he was standing still or walking and it was windy? If I remember, it had just rained before hand, and it being really windy after a rain storm isn't unheard of. Moreover, he's not really out of breath at the 2:15 mark, which means he was probably walking, which is not running down or chasing. Moreover, in the video of the reenactment, the "wind" noise gets picked up by the camera while they're sitting in the car.

Point is, the "wind" is not an accurate measurement of Zimmerman's actions at the time.

Originally Posted by Maverick.

Had Trayvon been white, Zimmerman would have just assumed he was a resident of the community

Objection, leading. You don't know what Zimmerman would have assumed.

Originally Posted by Maverick.

That's racial profiling.

Objection, speculation. The FBI conducted an investigation and determined that there wasn't any racist motive on Zimmerman's part.

Originally Posted by Maverick.

Zimmerman is definitely stronger than Trayvon.

Trayvon had a height and age advantage over Zimmerman. He was in better physical shape, and played varsity football. Zimmerman is not in the best physical shape, and I have no idea what muscle tone you're referring to. He's a pretty small dude (but I'm 6'1, so thats from my point of view)

Originally Posted by Maverick.

Zimmerman was told to stay away. He is not the fucking police.

He was told they didn't need him to follow Martin, and he complied with that, he said "okay" after all. The conversation after that was very calm and again, Zimmerman wasn't speaking out of breath, so he wasn't running. Also, dispatcher's aren't the police either, and have no legal authority.

Originally Posted by Maverick.

Either way, the bullet was shot in a way to where Trayvon was not on top of him.

Lets take a look at the link you posted, shall we?

"A leaked autopsy reportedly shows that the bullet that killed Florida teen Trayvon Martin was fired from "intermediate range," which one forensics expert said means anywhere from one to 18 inches away"

One to eighteen is a completely valid scenario for Trayvon being on top of Zimmerman.

Originally Posted by Maverick.

he did not return to his vehicle.

Really? Go to 9:30 in the video you posted. "I have a silver Honda ridge-line, I'll meet him right there. So then I started walking back." And then he starts walking back to his truck. He was confronted by Trayvon while returning to his vehicle. Again, the police reports support this.

Originally Posted by Maverick.

Why did he go over to where Trayvon was?

He didn't know where Trayvon was until Trayvon confronted him. He has no idea where the guy is in the latter half of the 9/11 call, if he did we wouldn't be calm and content with waiting for the police.

Originally Posted by Maverick.

Zimmerman instigated the issue by confronting a child*.

Objection, *'Six foot plus' tall varsity football player. Not a child. You're leading.

Originally Posted by Maverick.

"Today I'm going to kill a random hoodlum soliciting through the complex"

Objection, leading. Again, you don't know what Zimmerman was thinking.

Originally Posted by Maverick.

Not to mention he was armed. So basically he had an agenda.

Objection, leading. You don't know what Zimmerman's "agenda" was, if any, and I'm slightly offended at your insinuation that someone being armed means they have some sort of malicious agenda. Especially since the firearm was legal, and was being legally carried. Ulterior motive can only be assumed if the firearm was illegal, and that's not the case.

Originally Posted by Maverick.

THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY FELT THIS WAS NOT A SELF DEFENSE ISSUE AND NOT ONLY PROSECUTED AND ARRESTED ZIMMERMAN, BUT SLAMMED A SECOND DEGREE MURDER TAG ON HIM.

The District Attorney slapped second degree murder on him because the trial was highly publicized and she wanted to make it look like the state was doing something to appease public opinion.

There's nothing to suggest second degree murder. None. Zero. Zip. Manslaughter? Maybe, but that ship sailed the second the DA tried to make this a trial of public opinion.

Originally Posted by Maverick.

You are able to use firearm protection if the case if believed to be self defense.

Links to pictures of George Zimmerman's injuries (GRAPHIC, BLOOD):
http://www.blacknews.com/images/geor...man_injury.jpg
http://abcnews.go.com/images/US/ap_g...1204_wblog.jpg

All the Prosecution has at this point is speculation. There's no evidence to show that Zimmerman chased down and tackled Trayvon, let alone him starting the confrontation; there's no evidence to suggest that Zimmerman started the fight ; there's no evidence there's no evidence to suggest that the events of that night are wildly different than what Zimmerman has put forth; and the fact that the State is pursuing Second Degree actually feeds into the notion that Zimmerman is being unjustly persecuted.

Did Zimmerman following Trayvon cause the physical confrontation? Possibly, but since Zimmerman disengaged and was walking back to meet with the incoming officer, the physical confrontation was completely unnecessary and completely within the realm of responsibility of Trayvon Martin. He had no right to physically assault Zimmerman, and he paid for it with his life.

If I get into an argument with someone, and he physically assaults me, it's still his fault. If I follow someone for a minute, and then walk away, and he confronts and physically assaults me while I'm walking away from him, it's his fault.

If Zimmerman had started the physical confrontation, Trayvon would have defensive wounds (he didn't), and this would be a whole different game. But beyond speculation, there's absolutley no evidence to support that theory, and tons of police verified evidence suggesting that Zimmerman was physically assaulted after disengaging and walking away from Trayvon. Zimmerman's "pursuit" (if you can call it that) and Trayvon's physical confrontation were two separate events. Zimmerman didn't make Trayvon physically attack him, and attacking someone who's walking away from you isn't self defense, it's assault- even with the fact that Zimmerman was armed, because he was carrying concealed, which means that Trayvon had no idea Zimmerman was armed until he got shot.

This is why you don't act tough and run up on people, even if they're following you, and especially if they've stopped following you and are walking away.

[thebigmole]

Originally Posted by Maverick.

This whole case is centered around racial fusion. Had Trayvon been white, Zimmerman would have just assumed he was a resident of the community. Because he was not only black but wearing a hooded sweatshirt, Zimmerman just assumed he was up to good. That's racial profiling. It happens to me all the time.

Actually Zimmerman was suspicious of Trayvon because he matched the description of a thief that had been hitting houses in the neighborhood. That description happened to be of a black male.

Zimmerman made a mistake getting out of his car. Trayvon made a mistake confronting Zimmerman. A fight ensued where all evidence points to Trayvon having the upper hand. It's self defense. It is certainly partly Zimmerman's fault. But it is NOT murder 2. Not even a little bit.

[Maverick.]

With quickness, I'm going to once again refute your statements. This round is a little easier for me but I'm not getting cocky. I know you're going to try to be twice as hard on me.

Originally Posted by TigerTank77

Sounds good. Mock trial? Mock trial. Hahaha.

If you want to put it that way.

At 1:43 in the video, you can hear the sound of a beeping noise generally made by a vehicle who's doors are open when the engine/lights are on, and it does sound like George is moving. However, at 2:00, after the dispatcher tells Zimmerman that they don't need him to follow Martin, the "wind" noise starts to die down, and it's completely gone by the 2:15 mark. So he's either walking, or standing still. Neither of those two options would allow him to "chase down" Martin.

In my perspective despite the wind and weather conditions, he's moving in a past pace. When the operator asked of his name, he swiftly said "George". If he was still it would have came out calmer as when his voice was earlier in the 911 call. When he says "Zimmerman", his voice seems very preoccupied and the call is disconnected at that point.

That being said, what if he was standing still or walking and it was windy? If I remember, it had just rained before hand, and it being really windy after a rain storm isn't unheard of. Moreover, he's not really out of breath at the 2:15 mark, which means he was probably walking, which is not running down or chasing. Moreover, in the video of the reenactment, the "wind" noise gets picked up by the camera while they're sitting in the car.

Like I said earlier despite the weather conditions, he was definately running as he's pronouncing his first and last name in an odd way. As he had a lethargic voice towards the end of the 911 call due to being fatigued from running.

Point is, the "wind" is not an accurate measurement of Zimmerman's actions at the time.

It is. If we are/are not counting the weather conditions, his voice and the way he's not focusing on the operators questions give reason to believe he was running.

(Referring to Zimmerman being extra cautious being that Trayvon was black)
Objection, leading. You don't know what Zimmerman would have assumed.

Many users mentioned that one of the reasons he was being suspicious of Trayvon was due to the fact there was a black burglar in the community. He just assumed that since Trayvon was black, he must be the culprit. That is racial profiling. Therefore if Travyon was white, Zimmerman possibly could have not thought anything of him and nothing would be ventured or gained.

(Still refuting that this case is not racially based) Objection, speculation. The FBI conducted an investigation and determined that there wasn't any racist motive on Zimmerman's part.

I would like to see links or some sort of proof of this please.

Trayvon had a height and age advantage over Zimmerman. He was in better physical shape, and played varsity football. Zimmerman is not in the best physical shape, and I have no idea what muscle tone you're referring to. He's a pretty small dude (but I'm 6'1, so thats from my point of view)

Zimmerman is and never was a small stature man. Pictures of before and after the incident show this very burly and large man. During the incident, he might have lost a few pounds but now he's back to his large figure.

Regardless of physical shape if this is a ground assault which this case is centered around, Zimmerman would have the upper hand due to his weight and his muscle tone as fat is usually muscle. Height has nothing to do with it. He's an adult and the victim was a teenager.

He was told they didn't need him to follow Martin, and he complied with that, he said "okay" after all. The conversation after that was very calm and again, Zimmerman wasn't speaking out of breath, so he wasn't running. Also, dispatcher's aren't the police either, and have no legal authority.

He might have said yes in the phone call, but he still ended up pursuing Trayvon. Like I mentioned earlier, the way the words were coming out his mouth seemed jumbled and in my perspective he was tired.

And no they aren't police, but they work for the police department and the fact he went against the orders of the dispatcher shows foul play in some shape or form. 911 calls are vital in criminal cases.

Lets take a look at the link you posted, shall we?

"A leaked autopsy reportedly shows that the bullet that killed Florida teen Trayvon Martin was fired from "intermediate range," which one forensics expert said means anywhere from one to 18 inches away"

One to eighteen is a completely valid scenario for Trayvon being on top of Zimmerman.

Eighteen inches is also a huge gap as well. Something to ponder on.

(referring to this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX1sxARNq_c

Really? Go to 9:30 in the video you posted. "I have a silver Honda ridge-line, I'll meet him right there. So then I started walking back." And then he starts walking back to his truck. He was confronted by Trayvon while returning to his vehicle. Again, the police reports support this.

He didn't know where Trayvon was until Trayvon confronted him. He has no idea where the guy is in the latter half of the 9/11 call, if he did we wouldn't be calm and content with waiting for the police.

Ok I watched that video again and you made a boo boo.

You didn't answer my question.

I asked why did he go over to where Trayvon was. The dispatcher told him to leave the boy alone. He continued to look for addresses and other things because he wanted to be a wannabee cop. His agenda was never to go back to his vehicle. His agenda was to be a fake policeman and pursue Trayvon.

As he was walking back to his car Trayvon from behind "called him over". FROM BEHIND WHICH CONFRONT MEANS IN POINT BLANK, FRONTAL CONTACT

If he was walking back to his car, he would have continued to walk back to his car. A grown ass man who is armed with a gun isn't going to be intimidated by a teenage boy with a hooded sweatshirt on.. Especially if he "was going back to his car and was leaving Trayvon alone."

(Referring to Zimmerman's size once again.)

Objection, *'Six foot plus' tall varsity football player. Not a child. You're leading.

Objection overruled. In the United States by law, someone who is under the age of eighteen is a child. To society they are teenagers but they are considered minors/children/underage.

I'm not going to argue about the football thing. He's a boy and usually boys do active things.

(Referring to Zimmerman racially profiling Trayvon)

Objection, leading. Again, you don't know what Zimmerman was thinking.

You are absolutely right, I don't. I'm not a psychic and I haven't played one on television. But based on all these interviews and reanactments and shit like that, I know Zimmerman is lying like Pinocchio.

Which is why his lawyer doesn't want him saying a goddam thing come trial. He doesn't know how to keep his mouth shut. Casey Anthony kept her mouth shut and she got away with killing her child. Zimmerman can't ever keep his mouth shut which is why he is charged with second degree murder and his lawyer is going ape shit

Objection, leading. You don't know what Zimmerman's "agenda" was, if any, and I'm slightly offended at your insinuation that someone being armed means they have some sort of malicious agenda. Especially since the firearm was legal, and was being legally carried. Ulterior motive can only be assumed if the firearm was illegal, and that's not the case.

Yes but usually people have their guns under their bed or in the china cabinet in the den or somewhere like that. He had in his holster in his belt buckle. So to me that tells me he was ready for some action.

The District Attorney slapped second degree murder on him because the trial was highly publicized and she wanted to make it look like the state was doing something to appease public opinion.

There's nothing to suggest second degree murder. None. Zero. Zip. Manslaughter? Maybe, but that ship sailed the second the DA tried to make this a trial of public opinion.

Oh you just stop that.

They (judges, prosecution, defense) have stated many times they are trying their best to exclude public opinion from this case.

Zimmerman was told not to pursue a child. His stories don't add up. He had prior convictions related to assualt against his wife and other drug charges. The murder charge was sufficient enough.

Manslaughter might have implemented had he not confronted Trayvon like the 911 dispatcher told him not to.

Links to pictures of George Zimmerman's injuries (GRAPHIC, BLOOD):
http://www.blacknews.com/images/geor...man_injury.jpg
http://abcnews.go.com/images/US/ap_g...1204_wblog.jpg

All the Prosecution has at this point is speculation. There's no evidence to show that Zimmerman chased down and tackled Trayvon, let alone him starting the confrontation; there's no evidence to suggest that Zimmerman started the fight ; there's no evidence there's no evidence to suggest that the events of that night are wildly different than what Zimmerman has put forth; and the fact that the State is pursuing Second Degree actually feeds into the notion that Zimmerman is being unjustly persecuted.

Did Zimmerman following Trayvon cause the physical confrontation? Possibly, but since Zimmerman disengaged and was walking back to meet with the incoming officer, the physical confrontation was completely unnecessary and completely within the realm of responsibility of Trayvon Martin. He had no right to physically assault Zimmerman, and he paid for it with his life.

If I get into an argument with someone, and he physically assaults me, it's still his fault. If I follow someone for a minute, and then walk away, and he confronts and physically assaults me while I'm walking away from him, it's his fault.

If Zimmerman had started the physical confrontation, Trayvon would have defensive wounds (he didn't), and this would be a whole different game. But beyond speculation, there's absolutely no evidence to support that theory, and tons of police verified evidence suggesting that Zimmerman was physically assaulted after disengaging and walking away from Trayvon. Zimmerman's "pursuit" (if you can call it that) and Trayvon's physical confrontation were two separate events. Zimmerman didn't make Trayvon physically attack him, and attacking someone who's walking away from you isn't self defense, it's assault- even with the fact that Zimmerman was armed, because he was carrying concealed, which means that Trayvon had no idea Zimmerman was armed until he got shot.

This is why you don't act tough and run up on people, even if they're following you, and especially if they've stopped following you and are walking away.

I just want to show you this video before we proceed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THQJWJNY60w

This is the alleged route Trayvon walked on.

It is a known shortcut that usually young kids take to get to the convenience store to the housing areas.

But back to you're claim.

I'm not gonna argue about Zimmerman's bruises.

He provoked the fight. It is both parties fault. Trayvon was shot and killed so his story can't ever be told. The only story we have is that of Zimmerman's.

you're taking Zimmerman's side for all the wrong reasons and I don't have the energy to argue with your nonsense facts.

Trayvon was behind him when he called him over so there was no reason for Zimmerman to confront him. Therefore Zimmerman is partly responsible for this ordeal as that was plenty of time for him to go to his vehicle. Instead he walked in Trayvon's direction and the rest is unsolved mystery as we can only go on Zimmermans claim that a teenage child beat him to death unprovoked.

[TigerTank77]

Originally Posted by Maverick.

In my perspective despite the wind and weather conditions, he's moving in a past pace. When the operator asked of his name, he swiftly said "George". If he was still it would have came out calmer as when his voice was earlier in the 911 call. When he says "Zimmerman", his voice seems very preoccupied and the call is disconnected at that point.

You're still speculating about what you think happened. Speculation isn't evidence

Originally Posted by Maverick.

Like I said earlier despite the weather conditions, he was definitely running as he's pronouncing his first and last name in an odd way. As he had a lethargic voice towards the end of the 911 call due to being fatigued from running.

You still don't know if he was actually running. You can say he was, but there's no evidence to suggest he was running other than a cell phone recording muffled by wind, on a night after a rainstorm.

Originally Posted by Maverick.

It is. If we are/are not counting the weather conditions, his voice and the way he's not focusing on the operators questions give reason to believe he was running.

I've walked up the stairs before and been out of breath enough to have trouble focusing on what people are telling me, as well as having to take a breath to pronounce my last name, which is longer than Zimmerman's. Being winded from walking quickly isn't unreasonable for someone who was in the shape Zimmerman was in.

Originally Posted by Maverick.

Many users mentioned that one of the reasons he was being suspicious of Trayvon was due to the fact there was a black burglar in the community.

There was suspicion that there was a guy in a hooded sweatshirt going around and breaking into people's homes. Skin color wasn't a factor at that point in time.

Originally Posted by Maverick.

He just assumed that since Trayvon was black, he must be the culprit. That is racial profiling. Therefore if Travyon was white, Zimmerman possibly could have not thought anything of him and nothing would be ventured or gained.

Speculation, you have no evidence that Zimmerman assumed Trayvon was the suspect because he was black, he wasn't even sure if he was black on the 9/11 call to the dispatcher.

Originally Posted by Maverick.

I would like to see links or some sort of proof of this please.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/12/justic...-teen-shooting

"In an interview with FBI agents in March, investigator Chris Serino told authorities he "believed that Zimmerman's actions were not based on Martin's skin color, rather based on his attire, the total circumstances of the encounter and the previous burglary suspects in the community," according to an FBI report."

The racist motivation you've been trying to pin on Zimmerman doesn't hold any water beyond the point of speculation.

Originally Posted by Maverick.

Zimmerman is and never was a small stature man. Pictures of before and after the incident show this very burly and large man. During the incident, he might have lost a few pounds but now he's back to his large figure.

Are you really just making stuff up now?

Picture of Zimmerman when he was walking the police through his incident:
http://a.abcnews.com/images/US/abc_g..._120621_wg.jpg

Picture of Zimmerman at his original hearing, pre-bail.
http://media.nj.com/ledgerupdates_im...2f991e0735.jpg

I'm not seeing this big burly dude you keep speculating about.

Also, here's a picture at Trayvon the night of the shooting-
http://www.blackchristiannews.com/ne...og-Handout.jpg

There's not much difference, but Trayvon definitely has a height advantage, and obviously an athletic advantage, being a varsity football player, which you keep choosing to ignore for some reason.

Originally Posted by Maverick.

Regardless of physical shape if this is a ground assault which this case is centered around, Zimmerman would have the upper hand due to his weight and his muscle tone as fat is usually muscle.

I'm bolding the part that this is especially directed at, but, what?

Originally Posted by Maverick.

Height has nothing to do with it. He's an adult and the victim was a teenager.

See above.

Originally Posted by Maverick.

He might have said yes in the phone call, but he still ended up pursuing Trayvon.

Except there's no evidence that he pursued Trayvon after the phone call beyond speculation.

Originally Posted by Maverick.

Like I mentioned earlier, the way the words were coming out his mouth seemed jumbled and in my perspective he was tired.

Speculation.

Originally Posted by Maverick.

And no they aren't police, but they work for the police department and the fact he went against the orders of the dispatcher shows foul play in some shape or form.

Police dispatchers are civilian phone operators and have no legal or judicial authority.

Originally Posted by Maverick.

Eighteen inches is also a huge gap as well. Something to ponder on.

It's not a huge gap at all actually. The average length of an adult human arm from elbow to finger tip is about 16 inches. My elbow to finger tip measurement is actually about 18 inches. So basically, hold your arm down at your side, bend it up at the elbow so your forearm is at a 90 degree angle to your body, and keep your hand flat and level. That's approximately 16-18", depending on the size of your arm.

Originally Posted by Maverick.

I asked why did he go over to where Trayvon was.

Except he didn't know where Trayvon was, he was close by, but he was unaware of Trayvon's location. If he knew where he was, he would've told the dispatcher.

Originally Posted by Maverick.

The dispatcher told him to leave the boy alone.

He didn't actually say "leave the boy alone", he said "we don't need you to do that."

Originally Posted by Maverick.

He continued to look for addresses and other things because he wanted to be a wannabee cop.

Speculation, no evidence.

Originally Posted by Maverick.

His agenda was never to go back to his vehicle. His agenda was to be a fake policeman and pursue Trayvon.

Speculation, no evidence.

Originally Posted by Maverick.

As he was walking back to his car

So you admit that Zimmerman had disengaged and was returning to his vehicle? Excellent.

Originally Posted by Maverick.

Trayvon from behind "called him over". FROM BEHIND WHICH CONFRONT MEANS IN POINT BLANK, FRONTAL CONTACT

How does calling someone over from behind mean frontal contact?

Originally Posted by Maverick.

If he was walking back to his car, he would have continued to walk back to his car.

You just said he was, and he was trying to until someone got his attention.

Originally Posted by Maverick.

A grown ass man who is armed with a gun

A concealed (not able to be seen by other people) firearm that wasn't a factor in the situation until the physical confrontation.

Originally Posted by Maverick.

Originally Posted by Maverick.

. Especially if he "was going back to his car and was leaving Trayvon alone."

Unless the teenage six foot plus varsity football playing "boy" (the emotionally charged adjectives are getting a little stale) yelled at him from behind and Zimmerman stopped to look.

Originally Posted by Maverick.

Objection overruled. In the United States by law, someone who is under the age of eighteen is a child. To society they are teenagers but they are considered minors/children/underage.

Except that they can be tried as adults, and the only reason people are intent on treating this six foot plus tall varsity football player as if he were a child is because it makes Zimmerman look like a baby killer and satisfies the racists wanting to throw him in prison.

Originally Posted by Maverick.

I'm not going to argue about the football thing. He's a boy and usually boys do active things.

Sorry, you don't get to dissmiss the fact that Trayvon was AGAIN, a six foot tall varsity football player. Varsity is serious big time stuff, Varsity gets scouted by collegiate athletic teams. This is speculation, but another year and he might have been in the NCAA. You can't downplay his athleticism, it's a major component of the trial and it doesn't just go away because you want it to.

Originally Posted by Maverick.

You are absolutely right, I don't. I'm not a psychic and I haven't played one on television. But based on all these interviews and reanactments and shit like that, I know Zimmerman is lying like Pinocchio.

So you're not a psychic, you're not a mental health professional, but we're supposed to believe you when you say Zimmerman is lying?

Originally Posted by Maverick.

Zimmerman can't ever keep his mouth shut which is why he is charged with second degree murder

He's being charged with second degree murder because the DA wanted the publicity from putting someone away to appease the mob.

Originally Posted by Maverick.

Usually people have their guns under their bed or in the china cabinet in the den or somewhere like that. He had in his holster in his belt buckle. So to me that tells me he was ready for some action.

Except that legally carrying a legal firearm concealed cannot legally in any way shape or form give evidence to malicious intent. Concealed carrying is legally a defensive posture, not offensive, regardless of speculation

Originally Posted by Maverick.

Zimmerman was told not to pursue a child.

He was told they didn't need him to follow the suspect, who was an athletic six foot plus tall varsity football player. You can say child all you want, it's not going to change that fact.

Originally Posted by Maverick.

His stories don't add up.

They're corroborated by the EMT/Police reports.

Originally Posted by Maverick.

He had prior convictions related to assault against his wife and other drug charges. The murder charge was sufficient enough.

Prior convictions, none of which were felonies, and you haven't explained how it actually adds up to Second Degree murder.

Originally Posted by Maverick.

Manslaughter might have implemented had he not confronted Trayvon

Except he didn't confront Trayvon, there's no evidence to suggest he confronted Trayvon beyond your own speculation, Trayvon had no defensive wounds to suggest that he was confronted physically or otherwise, and you even admitted that Trayvon engaged Zimmerman while Zimmerman was walking back to his car. The evidence in Zimmerman's story AND the police report both support the face that Trayvon confronted and then physically assaulted Zimmerman as Zimmerman was returning to his vehicle.

Originally Posted by Maverick.

I just want to show you this video before we proceed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THQJWJNY60w

This is the alleged route Trayvon walked on.

It is a known shortcut that usually young kids take to get to the convenience store to the housing areas.

And?

Originally Posted by Maverick.

I'm not gonna argue about Zimmerman's bruises.

You don't have to, defensive wounds generally speak for themselves

Originally Posted by Maverick.

He provoked the fight.

Zimmerman tried to walk away. Trayvon confronted him after he started to leave, and attacked him. So, no, he didn't provoke the fight.

Originally Posted by Maverick.

It is both parties fault.

True.

Originally Posted by Maverick.

you're taking Zimmerman's side for all the wrong reasons and I don't have the energy to argue with your nonsense facts.

My "nonsense" facts are backed up by police and FBI reports. I'm not the one who's been gunning for this dude for multiple posts with nothing but conspiracy theories and speculation. But if you're not going to address the facts of the situation, than you really don't have anything to argue about anymore.

Originally Posted by Maverick.

Trayvon was behind him when he called him over so there was no reason for Zimmerman to confront him. Therefore Zimmerman is partly responsible for this ordeal as that was plenty of time for him to go to his vehicle. Instead he walked in Trayvon's direction and the rest is unsolved mystery as we can only go on Zimmermans claim that a teenage child beat him to death unprovoked.

Except that Trayvon didn't "call him over", he called to him and walked up, confronted Zimmerman and than physically assaulted him.

If all you're going to do is completely ignore the FBI and police reports, the ballistic evidence, and the medical reports from both Trayvon and Zimmerman to throw around wild speculative theories about a large burly man who's actually fairly tiny hunting down a poor innocent six foot plus tall baby child varsity football player, then you need to stop.

[Blackwing]

Zimmerman did what he thought was best.

[Maverick.]

So today is the first day of the trial. The jury selection begins.

There are only going to be six jury members.

[Maverick.]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsgtFBN8uKs

[Maverick.]

So is anyone still keeping up with this.

At this stage I'm indifferent.

I honestly don't like the bullying that Rachel is getting.

1.English is not her first language.
2.She is very emotional and isn't legally inclined.
3.The jackass lawyers kept belittling her.

I wasn't going to debate about the "White ass cracka" comment unless you really want too.

[TigerTank77]

Originally Posted by Maverick.

So is anyone still keeping up with this.

At this stage I'm indifferent.

I honestly don't like the bullying that Rachel is getting.

1.English is not her first language.
2.She is very emotional and isn't legally inclined.
3.The jackass lawyers kept belittling her.

I wasn't going to debate about the "White ass cracka" comment unless you really want too.

I'm more focused on the whole "lying under oath, recanting sworn testimony, admitted to not being able to read the letter she supposedly wrote to Trayvon's mom" part. Cross examining gets rough sometimes, it helps to not lie on the stand and feign ignorance while it's happening.

And at this stage, I don't see this going anywhere for the prosecution but down.

[Lelola]

I think it's a screwed up situation, however I think the media made it 1000 times worse. We could turn it into a new case for 12 Angry Men. I think ultimately he will be found guilty but I do not think he is guilty.

[Koharuchan]

Whether or not he's found guilty his life is still completely screwed, and I feel sorry for him. Think about it, if he's found guilty he's going to jail and I don't believe he should go to jail, because I don't believe he's guilty. This whole trial is a bunch of bullshit. If he's found not guilty and he goes free, there's going to be a giant lynch mob out to get him. If he walks free I guarantee people will try to kill him to get "justice for Trayvon" or some shit. I honestly feel sorry for this guy, because he doesn't deserve the giant shitstorm media started with this.

[Maverick.]

This is the end. Very soon, perhaps even today the verdict will be,

Guilty. Not Guilty. Or a hung jury.

[Brandon]

At this point, I feel bad for Zimmerman for becoming this image that many people to believe to be a "racist" regardless of evidence. I'm willing to bet that he's going to get killed by someone if the verdict is not-guilty...I hope that people are able to deal with the verdict either way, but people are unpredictable and can be irrational.

[Maverick.]

This will be the one and only warning. I am going to allow people to discuss their opinions but the minute I feel things are going uncivil, that's it. Thread will be closed indefinitely.

[Snufkin]

Ann Coulter Tweeted one word - "Hallelujah!"

Indeed. Let's rejoice that a young man has died.

I have my (strong) opinions on this, and would like to leave them away from this thread because I don't believe anything good can come from discussing this here, but shouting hallelujah at the end of a manslaughter trial when someone, a young black man, has been killed is absolutely fucking vile.

[nothereanymore]

I'm so pissed that he was found not guilty. That's all I have to say about it.

[cherrypie36]

Originally Posted by Viridian

I'm so pissed that he was found not guilty. That's all I have to say about it.

same here dude,

[Vagina]

at work tonight alot of people came in and were discussing it the verdict i just got off work and i have to admit im happy with the verdict a simple case of self defense in my opinion along with most people i saw at work.

[Maverick.]

Originally Posted by Vagina

at work tonight alot of people came in and were discussing it the verdict i just got off work and i have to admit im happy with the verdict a simple case of self defense in my opinion along with most people i saw at work.

What race are you?

Why do you think it was self defense?

Do you think the fact that six white women were in the jury affected the decision?

[Vagina]

Originally Posted by Maverick.

What race are you?

Why do you think it was self defense?

Do you think the fact that six white women were in the jury affected the decision?

im a member of the human race..

for one treyvon was ontop of the guy smashing his head against the concrete and he assaulted zimmerman with no provocation. not sure about you but i dont start beating up on someone cause they seem to be following me.

whats with all the race questions ?

[Thereishope]

I was totally shocked. To me what happend was not an act of self defense. Seeing as I really don't fully understand the difference in the other choices I will not say what I feel should have been the verdict. But to say this was in self defense, how? If it was in self defense I feel he could have done a lot less then fleed, etc. I really feel sorry for the family of Trayvon...that is all.

[CorrieUSMC]

Is it still a tragedy that someone lost their life? Yes.

But I'm glad that a jury of peers found G.Z. 'not guilty'. Even if people call the "Stand your ground" Self defense law a little skewed. G.Z. was still defending himself. "Following or not", that doesn't justify assaulting someone. Zimmerman will now have to live in protective custody for the remainder of his life. In the end, remember how our Justice system works, you have to prove beyond a Reasonable doubt. That the person is Guilty. Better 100 guilty people go free, then 1 Innocent person go to Jail.

[cherrypie36]

May i remind you. Domestic violence. He isn't THaT innocent.