Triggering: Trayvon Martin-George Zimmerman

[thebigmole]

Originally Posted by girlfromsocal

he was taller than zimmerman and stil zimmerman was heavier by a lot. He's obviously very solid. My point exactly in how much mass he had.

And by law he's a minor until 18. He never reached 18 he was a child by law.

Yeah but his bruises weren't life-threatening. He murdered him why would I believe what his claim was? Do you think zimmerman wants to get in trouble of course not. He'll say anything to cover his butt. He did pursue trayvon imo. If you had a big old creepy man following you you're going to want to defend yourself. Physics tells me he should have been able to get away and the bruises which were not life threatening tell me he wasn't in life threatening danger. There is no evidence but he said she said. I don't buy that.

Ok well just so we are using proper terms he did not murder him. It was manslaughter. There is NO evidence that Zimmerman followed Trayvon with the intention of killing him, and according to an eye witness Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman when Zimmerman shot him. That right there is essentially proof of manslaughter, not murder. Physics or not according to the eye witness Trayvon had the upper hand when the gun shot occured. And just because his injuries weren't that severe when you are in a state of fear and adrenaline the extent of the severity of your head being beaten into the ground isn't really what's going through your mind. This kid he had already seen as a threat was on top of him, whether he started the physical confrontation or not he was in fear for his life. Unfortunately that gets him off under Florida law.

[girlfromsocal]

yea like I said it's a he said she said case. But physics doesn't seem to tell the same truth also someone could stage it where it seemed like he had to shoot him when he fullwell knew he could have gotten away...

I think he murdered him intentionally because physically he had the upperhand. They're in a fight he can easily pretend he's losing and kill him pretending it's self-defense...

[thebigmole]

Originally Posted by girlfromsocal

yea like I said it's a he said she said case. But physics doesn't seem to tell the same truth also someone could stage it where it seemed like he had to shoot him when he fullwell knew he could have gotten away...

I think he murdered him intentionally because physically he had the upperhand.

What possible basis do you have that this is murder? You seem to be ignoring all of the evidence in this case and have created your own version based off of absolutely nothing. What possible motive did Zimmerman have to murder this boy he had never seen before?

[girlfromsocal]

there is no physical evidence just he said she said versions. So I don't believe it because in a case like this there'd have to be physical evidence

yes mine is based off of physics tested and proven to be right while yours is based off an eyewitness you've never met.

mental illness anger issues any issue I'm not in his head. I don't know why casey anthony killed her daughter I man what kind of monster kills their kid still know she did it.


You are overlooking all scientific facts just to pretend he's not done anything wrong. What I don't get is why was he inquiring why he was there he had a right to be didn't he?

[thebigmole]

Originally Posted by girlfromsocal

there is no physical evidence just he said she said versions. So I don't believe it because in a case like this there'd have to be physical evidence

yes mine is based off of physics tested and proven to be right while yours is based off an eyewitness you've never met.

mental illness anger issues any issue I'm not in his head. I don't know why casey anthony killed her daughter I man what kind of monster kills their kid still know she did it.


You are overlooking all scientific facts just to pretend he's not done anything wrong. What I don't get is why was he inquiring why he was there he had a right to be didn't he?

Ok let me try to explain this again, though I'd like to start off by saying I DO think that Zimmerman did something wrong. I DO think he is the cause of the confrontation that led to this kid's death. That being said... it doesn't matter if I've met the eyewitness it matter that the cops have talked to said eye witness, who has no reason to lie as I believe he is a 13 year old kid, and they believe him. Not to mention that you can hear someone crying for help on the 911 call and those cries match the eyewitnesses statement.
Now as to why Trayvon caught Zimmerman's attention to begin with. Zimmerman was a member of the neighborhood watch. The neighborhood had had some robberies recently. There was a description out of the suspect of these robberies. Trayvon matched said description. Zimmerman had never seen Trayvon before, he only knew that he matched the description of the suspect and he was walking around the neighborhood at night. Therefore he called the cops, which makes sense given the circumstances. Now what didn't make sense was getting out of his car to follow him, but he is a rather overzealous and stupid neighborhood watchman. Now according to Zimmerman once the 911 operator told him he didn't have to follow Trayvon he began to walk back to his car. But Trayvon had noticed he was being followed and decided to confront Zimmerman and ask why he was following him. Zimmerman replied with what are you doing here. That we know from Trayvon's girlfriend who was on the phone with him at the time and heard it. Then the scuffle ensued, we don't know who initiated the physical contact, but we know there was some sort of physical contact because Trayvon's headset was knocked out and his phone turned off. The next thing we know is that Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman on the ground and Zimmerman shot him. We know this from an eyewitness account and the fact that the back of Zimmerman's shirt was wet from the grass. Those are the FACTS of the case. Not crazy speculation, no crazy assumptions, the facts. Those facts point to MANSLAUGHTER possibly done in self defense. NOT MURDER.

[girlfromsocal]

the cops aren't GOD I don't believe everything they believe they have biases and things they want to believe like a 13 year old's view of what happened.. That's Zimmerman's story. Zimmerman lives in a violent and economically poor neighborhood. He may have had other issues like living in the innercity and all...

You are pretty naive to try to always trust their judgement. They aren't the ones who sentence criminals anyway.

[thebigmole]

Originally Posted by girlfromsocal

the cops aren't GOD I don't believe everything they believe they have biases and things they want to believe like a 13 year old's view of what happened.. That's Zimmerman's story. Zimmerman lives in a violent and economically poor neighborhood. He may have had other issues like living in the innercity and all...

You are pretty naive to try to always trust their judgement. They aren't the ones who sentence criminals anyway.

Wow with that attitude you are likely to NEVER be picked for a jury. But can I just ask why in the world you are so against Zimmerman, considering you are ignoring all of the facts of the case. Why are you assuming he must have done it for malicious reasons and the cops are covering it up. I mean what possible reason would there be for you to believe that?

Oh I would just like to point out I grew up in Sanford. It wasn't the safest place in the world, but not everyone who lived there were violent psychopaths out to kill innocent kids walking home at night.

[Maverick.]

I'm really happy that you guys are discussing this in a non ignorant way. The case and investigation is no where near being finished so when new information is added, we can discuss that.

[girlfromsocal]

I was actually picked once. Didn't want to attend.

Anyway not against him it's just he had a considerable amount of mass that makes it hard to believe trayvon got the better of him. Plus it's hard to know his intention do you really think he'd say yes I staged the whole thing just to kill him because I have xy and z problems. I don't think so so I don't believe his story. Do you think the police even realize they have a certain bias? No these are things people won't admit even though it may play a big role. Not everything that goes through people's minds is actually said...

[Tyr.]

Originally Posted by girlfromsocal

I think he murdered him intentionally because physically he had the upperhand. They're in a fight he can easily pretend he's losing and kill him pretending it's self-defense...

You have no possible understanding of the rapidity of violence. You think Zimmerman shouldn't have shot Martin because Martin was smaller than him? You think that size matters in a fight? You think Zimmerman should have refused to use force because he should have been able to get "the better of" the smaller Martin?

No. Fuck no. Size means jack and shit.

Just because a guy is smaller and you are carrying a holstered firearm, that does not in any way shape or form mean you have "won the fight". That does not even qualify as "the upperhand". There are a massive number of factors be be taken into account there. Your reasoning does not even work in theory, let alone in practice. I've seen little guys fuck up big guys. I've seen lots of guys get fucked up one one little guy. I've seen a crowd get their asses beaten into submission by a single carload of cops. Hell, I've even been the "little guy" going up against multiples guys much better armed than I was. Your reasoning is screwed. Lay off the 'shrooms, or whatever it is they do there in SoCal.

Martin being on top of Zimmerman, throwing punches downwards, qualifies as use of lethal force in my own mind. You better believe that a man can be killed that way. Intent is a far bigger problem than actual physical capability. A ten year old with a meat cleaver trying to kill me is a far greater threat than a gunman who doesn't have the intent.

If Martin threw the first punch, and was then on top of Zimmerman continuing to throw hits, he's showing intent to fuck up Zimmerman. At that stage, it's time to go loud.

I can't be fucked arguing the Martin vs Zimmerman bullshit anymore.

[Edited] Please Watch your language. That is not at all acceptable.

FYI, TeenHelp.

Knives. One more reason why you never disregard the little guy. Always assume that anybody showing hostile intent towards you is carrying a concealed weapon. Knife, screwdriver, whatever. If you are carrying a firearm, your safety radius is 7m. Ie, anybody with a knife within 7m will KILL YOU before you can draw and effectively use your firearm. Knives are very quick to draw, very fast and easy to use, and will do a lot of damage. If you are lucky (Ie, the guy in this picture below) the attacker will be a slasher. If he's inexperienced and slashing, you have a good chance of surviving. If he's a stabber, you're fucked. I would rather be shot than stabbed. You have better chances of surviving a gunshot.

[Edited]That isn't appropriate to post here.

- Yogi

[girlfromsocal]

zimmerman was not white. So this is not a black and white issue. But you have already shown why you want to believe zimmerman's story (calling black people coons and white people crackers). I for one am not that gullible. Maybe it's because I'm not white or black well in the sense we're speaking of at least. I am not so drawn into that type of argument and can stick to the facts. I don't think he was the aggressor neccesarily.

Also as a small girl I can tell you I could never get the best of a woman of normal size that's why I know from experience. More of the times than not the smaller one will not be successful. This is easily demonstrated and a fact in science.

With this case you can't be sure of anything unless you want to believe something. I guess I'm more of a critical thinker I don't just believe what's presented...

btw I don't live in Ca and I've never done drugs.

[Koharuchan]

Originally Posted by girlfromsocal

zimmerman was not white. So this is not a black and white issue. But you have already shown why you want to believe zimmerman's story (calling black people coons and white people crackers). I for one am not that gullible. Maybe it's because I'm not white or black well in the sense we're speaking of at least. I am not so drawn into that type of argument and can stick to the facts. I don't think he was the aggressor neccesarily.

Also as a small girl I can tell you I could never get the best of a woman of normal size that's why I know from experience. More of the times than not the smaller one will not be successful. This is easily demonstrated and a fact in science.

With this case you can't be sure of anything unless you want to believe something. I guess I'm more of a critical thinker I don't just believe what's presented...

btw I don't live in Ca and I've never done drugs.

Okay, you do realize that he's not talking about ALL white and black people? He's referring to all the idiots that want to make this a purely racial issue.

Also, as Yogi has already said, size means NOTHING in a fight. Just because a person is smaller, they automatically lose? Bullshit. Complete and utter BULLSHIT. Try telling that to a friend of mine. She's barely over 5 feet tall, and she beat the shit out of a guy MUCH bigger than her after he punched her and shoved her into a brick wall. The dude had a broken nose and a broken arm when she was done with him. Know why? Because although she may be little, she's fucking STRONG and she knows how to fight.

Let me give you an example. Some idiot tries to pick a fight with someone smaller because he thinks that gives him the upper hand. The smaller person knows karate. Who do you think would win that fight? I'd venture to say the smaller one who knows how to fight.

Another example. In middle school, my boyfriend got a lot of shit from other people. People tried to beat him up. He's taken down plenty of guys bigger than him, and he's taken down groups of people trying to jump him. How did he do this? He was stronger. Having size does NOT make you the winner and it does NOT make you stronger.

[Maverick.]

Just a heads up to everyone, using racial slurs is not at all acceptable.

[Guile]

My opinion, Martin was a hood, you can tell from the photos, and his postings on social media. The media has demonize Zimmerman, and Martin shouldn't have assaulted Zimmermann.

[TigerTank77]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/04/03...erman-11-call/

REMEMBER WHAT I SAID

DON'T. TRUST. THE. FUCKING. MEDIA.

[Maverick.]

Originally Posted by Guile

My opinion, Martin was a hood, you can tell from the photos, and his postings on social media. The media has demonize Zimmerman, and Martin shouldn't have assaulted Zimmermann.

Right, just because he's black, is wearing a hooded sweatshirt, that automatically makes him a thug right?

[Brandon]

Originally Posted by Maverick.

Right, just because he's black, is wearing a hooded sweatshirt, that automatically makes him a thug right?

I'm not going to say that it's a reliable source, but I believe there is definitely some evidence to support that prejudice is natural.

http://www.science20.com/news_articl...man_need-85802

I think that when people think about hoodies, we think of robbers who put hoodies over there head to mask their identities and such. Hoodies have bad reputation. When we see someone with a hoodie when it's not raining and cold enough, then we get a little suspicious and go into fight or flight mode. We weigh our options and proceed with caution because the person wearing the hoodie could very well be trying to hide his identity with the intent to kill someone. I'm not saying it's right, but I'm saying it's natural.

[Guile]

Originally Posted by Maverick.

Right, just because he's black, is wearing a hooded sweatshirt, that automatically makes him a thug right?

Or because of you know.... evidence?



His screen name was “@NO_LIMIT_NIGGA, as you can see from the twitpic account screenshot above. He was also a member of a twitter hash group #team4dat.

Another post makes reference to Trayvon having “swung on a bus driver” a few days before he died.

On the day he was killed, he had been suspended for 10 days from Dr. Michael M. Krop Senior High School in North Miami-Dade.

Check those totally respectable, and classy.... grills.

[cassie.x]

Hi guys, I don't live in America but i'm trying to keep up with the case (slightly more difficult for me though) so sorry if anything i post is out-tated or whatever, feel free to let me know!
But, here's my opinion, from what iv'e heard/seen about the case.

First of all, Trayvon's past doesn't really matter to much if we are trying to figure out the event's that happened that night, he got kicked out of school for a few days, so what? could be really bad timing, i know plently of people who have been sent home from school (myself included) for the most silly things, nothing threatening or voilent and it certainly doesn't have to stand for his character. And let's not get to personal, he had 'Grillz', and people may not like that, but it doesn't mean he was agressive or deserved to get shot etc, let's stick to the point at hand please?

Now, just because Zimmerman is proven to be Hispanic and 'non white' he is automatically not a rascist? I don't think so. His neighbours have said about him he took his duty on neighbourhood watch 'too seriously' and often went out 'on the look for young black men' as he saw these men as a threat.

Martin phoned his girlfriend telling her he was scared of the man who kept following him and it was intimidating, he never mentioned wanting to confront or hurt him, his girlfriend told him to run away and he agreed he would, because he feared he was going to get hurt.
I beleive there is also racism on the part of the police offers who arrived at the scene and just seemed to accept this fact and not want to question any further.
On the police calls (you can hear them for yourselfs) there is voice identified as Martin's shouting for help, many neighbours and witinesses say that it was Treyvon who was being attacked and shouting for help. A few hours after being released from the police station Zimmerman had no blood/cuts/bruises on his head? he claimed he was ''cleaned up'' by police, this wouldn't cover up cuts he would have recieved had his ''head been smashed of the ground'' like others have claimed, also, if that had been the case, he would have needed to have been hospitalised. So if Martin did ever hit Zimmerman, it was not with that kind of force people have claimed.
Also, many witnesses have claimed the police tried to change there stories and a few people who said they SAW Zimmerman attack Treyvon have not been allowed to release a statement. why?

So, Even if Martin did hit Zimmerman first, Zimmerman was also a pretty large guy, and Martin was not a 'thug', i feel Zimmerman might have been able to struggle free and resolve this without shooting someone who was un-armed.
Also, Zimmerman said to police he was going to stop following Martin and claims to have returned to his car (only he can back this claim up, no witnesses etc) and the time he said this, compared to the time Martin was on the phone to his girlfriend, he still claimed to have been followed even after the recorded time Zimmerman told police he wouldn't continue following him.

This is my opinion on what iv'e seen or read so far, i'm not saying who i think is guilty or not, and i'm certainly not trying to sensationalise or make this a 'race' issue if it is not. Just my obesrvations so far.

[cassie.x]

Oh. Just to respond to some of the 'evidence' (ha!) that Martin was a 'thug' based on his photos...


I suggest you look at these.

[Guile]

Originally Posted by danni182x

Oh. Just to respond to some of the 'evidence' (ha!) that Martin was a 'thug' based on his photos...


I suggest you look at these.

Sits with baby, obviously a good person.

[cassie.x]

Has a hoodie- obviously a bad person?

[Guile]

Originally Posted by danni182x

Has a hoodie- obviously a bad person?

Sells drugs, punches bus driver, suspended from school, fine example of a model citizen.

[cassie.x]

Is there a good source that says he sold drugs ?
( Not in america so i don't get to follow this as closely as i'd like!)
I hope your not using the picture from FB as 'proof' he sells drugs? Me personally i have never touched a drug in my life or assossicate with those that do, but i know if you looked through my social networking you will find atleast ONE person asking me if i can get them drugs in my local area (no idea why). And Martin never answered the guy back saying he had 'weed' so that picture stands for nothing other than a guy asking for weed.
As i said in my earlier post i too have been kicked out of school for a silly mistake, it does not stand for my character, school is were people learn and grow and often part of that could be struggling with authority ( Has anyone suggested why he got kicked out of school)
As for if it's true he punched a bus driver , that's pretty unnacceptable of course but i can't seem to find a reliable source for that online atleast.

[Grey Wind]

Originally Posted by danni182x

First of all, Trayvon's past doesn't really matter to much if we are trying to figure out the event's that happened that night, he got kicked out of school for a few days, so what? could be really bad timing, i know plently of people who have been sent home from school (myself included) for the most silly things, nothing threatening or voilent and it certainly doesn't have to stand for his character. And let's not get to personal, he had 'Grillz', and people may not like that, but it doesn't mean he was agressive or deserved to get shot etc, let's stick to the point at hand please

It does matter though, because it shows that Trayvon wasn't the innocent 13 year old everyone is making him out to be, and was fully capable, both mentally and physically, to have attacked Zimmerman. When you bring up Trayvon's "model student" personality (a lie) to justify his innocence in this case, you have to expect it to be called out as bullshit. Just like how Zimmerman's "racism" is relevant as well.

I do think the bus driver and drug dealer accusations are mostly bullshit, though.

Originally Posted by danni182x

On the police calls (you can hear them for yourselfs) there is voice identified as Martin's shouting for help, many neighbours and witinesses say that it was Treyvon who was being attacked and shouting for help. A few hours after being released from the police station Zimmerman had no blood/cuts/bruises on his head? he claimed he was ''cleaned up'' by police, this wouldn't cover up cuts he would have recieved had his ''head been smashed of the ground'' like others have claimed, also, if that had been the case, he would have needed to have been hospitalised. So if Martin did ever hit Zimmerman, it was not with that kind of force people have claimed.

Nah, he was shown to have cuts on the back of his head, actually. I've heard rumors of this being the actual tape, and considering NBC edited their 911 call to make Zimmerman appear racist, I wouldn't put it past ABC for releasing a dirty version first.

[Tyr.]

Originally Posted by Maverick.

Right, just because he's black, is wearing a hooded sweatshirt, that automatically makes him a thug right?

If you ever get the chance, read up on the Israeli material on profiling.

- Yogi

[Maverick.]

Racial profiling is very stupid. I can't tell you how many times the cops stopped me for no reason when I was walking home from school. Just because of my skin tone, they assume I'm up to no good.

[cassie.x]

Caliber- I see what you mean there about his past maybe effecting what happened that night actually. ( He is 17 though, i thought?)
You know it is so hard to keep up with this story! every news site is saying different allegations, so i must say it's becoming hard to know what one is accurate! But if Zimmerman's head was hit against concrete with alot of force, surely his head would be gashed open? Not a slight bruise/cut, tho?
The tapes i heard were on Wiki? if you want to hear the ones i heard anyway but i'm not sure if they came from a newsite or not, but according to 'voice recognition experts' and Martin's family it is 100% Martin on the tape shouting for help, and that matches witness statements saying they heard/saw Martin shouting for help whilst being attacked.
I think it's going to be very hard to ever find out the truth about this story because of course, Martin is sadly gone so we can never hear his side of the story.

[thebigmole]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimm...ry?id=16115469

All I can say is that unless there is some hidden evidence out there that we don't know about yet this charge is absolutely ridiculous. Going off of everything we know if he was to be charged with anything it should be manslaughter. They are making the same mistake they made with Casey Anthony, turning a manslaughter case into a murder case. That's why she got off. Personally I think Zimmerman will get off either way, but this charge is just stupid.

[Koharuchan]

I agree that this charge is idiotic. I'm watching it on the news right now; they were showing all these people marching for Trayvon. Hasn't anyone realized yet that he WASN'T the innocent child they made him out to be? I'm damn tired of this case.

[Brandon]

It's a race issue. When race issues come up in the justice system, it is no longer about justice but more about who to satisfy.

[TigerTank77]

2ND DEGREE MURDER?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Oh my god, this is going to set a new record for "swiftest kick in the DA's ass".

They have nothing on him. Not a fucking thing. The only reason this has gone this far is because the media and people like Sharpton and James are trying to incite a fucking race war for their own profit.

[Grey Wind]

You can reduce charges during a trial. Prosecutor's swinging for the fences hoping she can get a conviction on anything at all. I imagine plea bargain wouldn't be too bad to satisfy the masses. That or she has an ace up her sleeve, because her statement was way too [Edited by Kitty.] to not have confidence in a conviction.

Stringing this out as long as possible is exactly what people want, though. MSNBC gets to pour gasoline on a fire, then watch it's ratings skyrocket as they cover it. Democrats have already started to use this as a springboard to rally against firearm and self defense laws. Exploiting a tragedy to further their agenda, it's what leeches like Shapton are born for.

[cuteprickleypink1]

well your judgement I kind of question considering you say casey anthony never murdered anyone. I tend to side with the ruling. And this has nothing to do race... Please get over it and realize you can't just shoot people and go home. I do think a lot of the information has been twisted.

[Koharuchan]

Originally Posted by cuteprickleypink1

well your judgement I kind of question considering you say casey anthony never murdered anyone. I tend to side with the ruling. And this has nothing to do race... Please get over it and realize you can't just shoot people and go home. I do think a lot of the information has been twisted.

Actually, this has everything to do with race. This entire stupid case has been about race the entire time. For once it was a black person that got shot by a "white hispanic" guy. Now it's a giant racial issue.

[thebigmole]

Originally Posted by cuteprickleypink1

well your judgement I kind of question considering you say casey anthony never murdered anyone. I tend to side with the ruling. And this has nothing to do race... Please get over it and realize you can't just shoot people and go home. I do think a lot of the information has been twisted.

I do not believe that Casey Anthony murdered her child. There was no evidence or anything pointing to her intentionally killing her child. I do believe she was responsible for her child's death which is why she should have been charged with manslaughter. I believe that if she had been charged with manslaughter she would be in jail right now. As for Zimmerman, there is no way in hell that he is going to be convicted of 2nd degree murder. It is not going to happen. There was at least a chance with manslaughter but there is absolutely NOTHING pointing to 2nd degree murder. To be quite honest I think he's going to get off completely because of the Stand Your Ground law. Which needs to be revised sooner than later.

[Kitty.]

They need to stop putting up that picture of Trayvon that makes him look so young. He looked nothing like that during the time of the shooting. It's twisting people's views on the situation. I agree that it's become a race issue.

[TigerTank77]

Originally Posted by thebigmole

Stand Your Ground law. Which needs to be revised sooner than later.

If Trayvon did infact attack Zimmerman, it was a justified shooting.

Otherwise, it'd mean that we're advocating pre-emptive violence on anyone following you. Which isn't a crime.

[thebigmole]

Originally Posted by TigerTank77

If Trayvon did infact attack Zimmerman, it was a justified shooting.

Otherwise, it'd mean that we're advocating pre-emptive violence on anyone following you. Which isn't a crime.

Oh I agree. But with the law even if Zimmerman attacked first he could still get off. A little while ago I head that the defendants were trying to use that law in the case of the bouncer stabbing. These guys were being drunk assholes and got themselves kicked out of a bar and outside a fight started and the bouncer got stabbed and died. And they are trying to say that they should get away with that because even though they could have easily just left like they were being asked, the law says it was perfectly acceptable for them to stay and fight.

[Maverick.]

I don't know whether to be happy, or confused. This idiot is finally charged. Either way, this will shut people up and we can move on to other things.