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-   -   Triggering: Abortion??? (http://www.teenhelp.org/forums/f38-current-events-debates/t41362-abortion/)

DeletedAccount64 April 10th 2010 09:38 AM
Re: Abortion???
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toast (Post 362747)
So in your opinion, abortion is illegal? Why aren't people getting arrested for it then?
I believe that abortion in most cases should be illegal yes, but it's not so of course people aren't being arrested for it. I just think it should be because I believe it is the same as murder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShimmeringFaerie (Post 362847)
So abortion isn't murder if it's at less than 6 weeks? So basically you're saying that abortion is okay, it's just an issue of timing?


No, I'm saying that the baby doesn't have a heart yet, it isn't formed at all under six weeks so it is acceptable, not okay, to have an abortion at this point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShimmeringFaerie (Post 362847)
Okay, I've never heard of a fetus being able to be transferred from one womb to another, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Would you care to provide some sort of website that details that procedure? However, it seems to me that there would be very few women in the world who would want to have a procedure like that. If they are in need of IVF, don't they usually use their own eggs?

Also, transferring the fetus still carries the issue of women seeing the baby as "a rapist's baby". There is still the issue of possible mental disorders and the child still carries that stigma. In cases where the women is simply too young or unfit or doesn't want the baby, this might be suitable; but, for pregnancies by rape, there are still all the same problems.
I cannot find a website unfortunately I may come back to finding one later when I have more time, currently I am doing art homework as well. I will find one though. I have read about people doing this in cases where IVF and GIFT have not been available.
And I don't think mental disorders normally contribute to people becoming rapists. You don't have to be a schizophrenic or have bipolar, or any other mental disorder, to be a sick person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by !!!YOU'RE$NUCKING$FUTZ!!! (Post 362963)
First, we're all a bunch of cells so that's not an argument that applies only to the fetus. Second, the fetus is a human from the start because it has human DNA and was made by two humans. So why do you consider it a human then? Furthermore, before the time when you consider it a human, what do you consider it?
Okay, yes we are all a bunch of cells, maybe I should have found a better way of putting it. But the baby is not breathing until it is six weeks old. Therefore it is not alive, and abortion would not be killing it. It would still be preventing the baby from existing, and I still disagree with it, but I think it is more acceptable. And I consider a fetus under six weeks to be an embryo, a sac of cells not breathing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by !!!YOU'RE$NUCKING$FUTZ!!! (Post 362963)
Does this happen in the majority of cases?
No it doesn't, but that doesn't change the fact that it can be done.

shimmeringfaerie April 10th 2010 10:47 AM
Re: Abortion???
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PunkRoxS9 (Post 363044)
No, I'm saying that the baby doesn't have a heart yet, it isn't formed at all under six weeks so it is acceptable, not okay, to have an abortion at this point.
Firstly, acceptable and okay are basically the same thing. And you've said many times that you think abortion is murder, except maybe in the case of health risks. That kinda implied that you disagree with it strongly in almost all cases. But now you're saying that you don't disagree with it if it's under six weeks? So why say it's murder if you don't actually believe that it's always murder?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PunkRoxS9 (Post 363044)
I cannot find a website unfortunately I may come back to finding one later when I have more time, currently I am doing art homework as well. I will find one though. I have read about people doing this in cases where IVF and GIFT have not been available.
And I don't think mental disorders normally contribute to people becoming rapists. You don't have to be a schizophrenic or have bipolar, or any other mental disorder, to be a sick person.
Well, it seems to me that a procedure like that would be incredibly expensive, be really risky, and be really hard to do. If you have a 8 week old fetus, I doubt that it can just be easily transferred to another woman's body. Her body wouldn't be prepared to carry a baby. And since IVF is a very expensive procedure, wouldn't this also be? Many people can't afford that. And as I said before, many people prefer to use their own eggs. I maintain that a procedure like that would be used so rarely that it wouldn't help. In Australia alone, there are tens of thousands of abortions performed every year. There would never be tens of thousands of women waiting to take those babies. Your proposal is a lovely idea, but almost useless.

You don't have to have a mental disorder to be a rapist, but I'm talking about the ones who do. Many mental disorders are proven to increase violent tendencies. People with some mental disorders, even something as common as ADHD, are shown to be more aggressive. Are you saying that you wouldn't even have a second thought about carrying the child of a rapist? Or of someone with a mental disorder that makes them violent? Because I would, and I think a lot of other women would to.

OMFG!You'reActuallySmart! April 10th 2010 11:22 AM
Re: Abortion???
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PunkRoxS9 (Post 363044)
Therefore it is not alive, and abortion would not be killing it.
Huh? If it is not alive, then how is it managing to keep on growing? A can is not alive but a fetus is alive. Basic biology can show you that and if you say otherwise, then I'm wondering how much biology you know. The fact you then make claims about what is and is not an embryo, to me makes no sense and is mind-boggling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PunkRoxS9 (Post 363044)
It would still be preventing the baby from existing, and I still disagree with it, but I think it is more acceptable. And I consider a fetus under six weeks to be an embryo, a sac of cells not breathing.
Since the scientific community, people in university taking science and in high-school taking science and taught, accept and acknowledge that an embryo is that AFTER EIGHT weeks, what do you label the thing as after six weeks? I'm not trying to be mean to you but it really shows you don't have an understanding of biology and if so, you should then stick to what is known and accepted, not make up your own terms on something you have little understanding of. To me and to others, it's confusing especially if we then introduce other terms because the timescale you're using is already off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PunkRoxS9 (Post 363044)
No it doesn't, but that doesn't change the fact that it can be done.
Correct.

It does however require proof that this occurs and when it does, proof that the receipient women usually (i.e. 50% or so) of the time pays for it. Since ShimmeringFaerie has also asked for proof or a source, the source you provide to her will hopefully be sufficient for this debate. However, I'll let this be because you're busy as am I but just remember that a source is needed.

Jack April 10th 2010 12:26 PM
Re: Abortion???
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PunkRoxS9 (Post 363044)
I believe that abortion in most cases should be illegal yes, but it's not so of course people aren't being arrested for it. I just think it should be because I believe it is the same as murder.
So, to carry this to its logical conclusion, you believe that it would be better to cause thousands of women to die or seriously injure themselves each year in illegal back alley abortions instead of allowing a safe alternative?

haveXhope April 10th 2010 01:35 PM
Re: Abortion???
 
I personally could never have an abortion. I really don't like the idea of killing my own flesh and blood. It's wrong to me. But that's also because I was pregnant and I was told to get an abortion. I disagreed a 100% but then 2 months later, I miscarried. So if you are blessed with the privilege to be someone's mother, I just don't think you should take life away.

L'espoir April 10th 2010 05:37 PM
Re: Abortion???
 
I think abortion should be legal and I am pro choice. I don't see why it should be illegal because some people think it's wrong. What is wrong with having the choice for abortion to be there and not illegal and then people who disagree don't have to have one and people who do want one can do. If you don't want to have an abortion then that's up to you, nobody would force you to but I think it would be wrong to force your beliefs upon people who do want an abortion and don't believe those things... if that makes sense?

Stardaze April 10th 2010 05:51 PM
Re: Abortion???
 
Me and my girlfriend were talking about this last night actually.
I think having an abortion should be illegal, unless your raped. Then obviously you can make that choice. I think you should have to show the police report.

I know it sounds weird i just am 100% pro-life. I think everyone should have a chance at life. There is so need to kill an innocent baby. Ugh... If you have sex it should always be in the back of your mind that something could happen. even if your on birth control and what not.

Also I'm going to add this- I know a girl i went to high school with (shes a senior now) she was already 3 months and she just had an abortion. For one.. i think that's far too late >.< and two, she only aborted it because she didn't know who the baby's father was. Makes me so mad, and also sad.

L'espoir April 10th 2010 05:57 PM
Re: Abortion???
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelina. (Post 363247)
Me and my girlfriend were talking about this last night actually.
I think having an abortion should be illegal, unless your raped. Then obviously you can make that choice. I think you should have to show the police report.

I know it sounds weird i just am 100% pro-life. I think everyone should have a chance at life. There is so need to kill an innocent baby. Ugh... If you have sex it should always be in the back of your mind that something could happen. even if your on birth control and what not.
What about people who are too scared/just don't want to file a police report? Also, as it has been mentioned in previous posts, what about girls/boys who haven't been educated well enough about sex/protection etc and get pregnant through no fault of their own? Sure, this is your view and you are perfectly within your rights to say you never want to have an abortion but why force that upon others by making it illegal? Why should other people have to go without just because you believe it's wrong. Also, have you taken into consideration what Jack has said about how lots of women will just try and do it illegally anyway and end up dying. Don't you think it's better for them to have it done safely so that only the baby dies and not the baby and mother?

emma01 April 10th 2010 07:50 PM
Re: Abortion???
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by !!!YOU'RE$NUCKING$FUTZ!!! (Post 362963)
As you said, it'd be for the best and I agree with you on that but why can you not agree because your argument seems to be in favour of abortion in this case, not against it?
This is why I find this topic rather hard lol, because I can see that it would be best...but i just don't believe in abortions. I am just majorly confusing myself now :)

emma01 April 10th 2010 08:02 PM
Re: Abortion???
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack (Post 363088)
So, to carry this to its logical conclusion, you believe that it would be better to cause thousands of women to die or seriously injure themselves each year in illegal back alley abortions instead of allowing a safe alternative?
Just saying, when people say they think it should be illegal, they are not necessarily saying it would be better to cause thousands of women to die! Im sure no one would want that, but they just dont believe in abortions :)

LimLight April 10th 2010 08:07 PM
Re: Abortion???
 
I would never get an abortion, and personally don't agree with it. I do believe, though, that it is up to the individual's choice. I am not going to look down at someone if they had an abortion, if they personally thought it was the best thing for them to do.

DeletedAccount64 April 10th 2010 08:24 PM
Re: Abortion???
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by !!!YOU'RE$NUCKING$FUTZ!!! (Post 363070)
Since the scientific community, people in university taking science and in high-school taking science and taught, accept and acknowledge that an embryo is that AFTER EIGHT weeks, what do you label the thing as after six weeks? I'm not trying to be mean to you but it really shows you don't have an understanding of biology and if so, you should then stick to what is known and accepted, not make up your own terms on something you have little understanding of. To me and to others, it's confusing especially if we then introduce other terms because the timescale you're using is already off.
Hey! Biology is my worst subject okay? I get squeamish so I don't listen well. I always thought it was an embryo, then a fetus, then a baby. Sorry if my terminology was wrong. But I am right about it not having a heart til its 6 weeks, and in my opinion that means its not really alive cuz its not breathing and not thinking.

Jack April 10th 2010 08:49 PM
Re: Abortion???
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by emma01 (Post 363323)

Just saying, when people say they think it should be illegal, they are not necessarily saying it would be better to cause thousands of women to die! Im sure no one would want that, but they just dont believe in abortions :)
Yes, but the deaths or injury of thousands of women is the logical continuance of that belief.

That's like me saying "I believe that insulin should be illegal as it involves testing on animals, but I don't want diabetics to suffer or die". One is a necessary cause of the other. By believing that abortions should be made illegal you must therefore believe that thousands of women should be forced to resort to dangerous back-alley abortions. To want abortions made illegal AND for women not to die from backalley abortions is just wanting to have your cake and eat it too. Reality doesn't work like that.

You can dislike abortions, you can even hate abortions, but to think they should be made illegal is dangerous and, in my opinion, wrong.
Remember that pro-choice does not mean you like abortions, it means you think it should be legal. You can hate abortions and yet be pro-choice.

lovestruck April 10th 2010 10:03 PM
Re: Abortion???
 
i think abortion is fine would yu rather have a child go through adopition which never turns out rigght and have them abused so i think abortion is alot better then abuse

Melody Pond April 10th 2010 10:04 PM
Re: Abortion???
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PunkRoxS9 (Post 363342)
Hey! Biology is my worst subject okay? I get squeamish so I don't listen well. I always thought it was an embryo, then a fetus, then a baby. Sorry if my terminology was wrong. But I am right about it not having a heart til its 6 weeks, and in my opinion that means its not really alive cuz its not breathing and not thinking.
The heart begins to beat after 22 days but this doesn't mean it can think and breathe. You need a brain and nervous system to think and lungs to breath. The foetus can breathe after 10/11 weeks

I am pro choice. There are times when I am against abortion but I still believe it is a woman's choice of what she does.

I think abortion should be legal to prevent women dying from back alley abortions.

I disagree with abortion is when it is used as contraception or when the baby is planned and then aborted for having a disability. When I say disability I mean a minor ones like a cleft palate and things like that.
If the disability/disease is very severe ones like If the baby will die a day after birth and suffer for that whole day then I would agree with abortion.

I am against late term abortions, I believe once the baby can survive without the mothers support then abortion is wrong. Usually this is 18 - 20 weeks. Also I have learnt that a nervous system is fully developed at 12 weeks which is when the foetus can fully feel pain. I personally would feel uncomfortable getting an abortion after this time.

This is my source for my biology facts http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/facts/f...velopment.html
It is a Pro life website but from what I can tell this is fact. I have learnt this in my A level biology and Religious Studies and it is in my text books, I double checked to make sure the source isn't bias.

emma01 April 10th 2010 10:35 PM
Re: Abortion???
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack (Post 363356)
Yes, but the deaths or injury of thousands of women is the logical continuance of that belief.

That's like me saying "I believe that insulin should be illegal as it involves testing on animals, but I don't want diabetics to suffer or die". One is a necessary cause of the other. By believing that abortions should be made illegal you must therefore believe that thousands of women should be forced to resort to dangerous back-alley abortions. To want abortions made illegal AND for women not to die from backalley abortions is just wanting to have your cake and eat it too. Reality doesn't work like that.

You can dislike abortions, you can even hate abortions, but to think they should be made illegal is dangerous and, in my opinion, wrong.
Remember that pro-choice does not mean you like abortions, it means you think it should be legal. You can hate abortions and yet be pro-choice.
I dont think they should be ILLEGAL, i just think there has to be a good reason.
And yea I see what you mean by necessary cause, and yea it is true, but i just dont see how anyone could want for the mother to die, and when people say abortions should be illegal, i dont think they mean it in a way that they would rather women die.

OMFG!You'reActuallySmart! April 11th 2010 04:53 AM
Re: Abortion???
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PunkRoxS9 (Post 363342)
Hey! Biology is my worst subject okay? I get squeamish so I don't listen well.
I don't really care what your worst subject is. Mine was English. Does it matter? No. This debate has a biological view to it and if you don't know or understand the basic concepts of it, you should do some research on those first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PunkRoxS9 (Post 363342)
I always thought it was an embryo, then a fetus, then a baby. Sorry if my terminology was wrong. But I am right about it not having a heart til its 6 weeks, and in my opinion that means its not really alive cuz its not breathing and not thinking.
I asked this question before and never got an answer but you brought the topic up again. So, my question to you is this: if the fetus according to you is not alive at that time, then why does it continue to grow and follow a certain developmental pattern? Micro-organisms, fungi and bacteria do not think and they do not technically breath, so are they dead?

As for the heart, the heart tube begins at week 5 but then the heart develops in week 6, so yes, you're correct on that. However, breathing and thinking occur well after 6 weeks, so what is your point about emphasizing the heart develops at week 6? If you're going to think, you need a brain, which needs oxygen via blood. So why you're only emphasizing when the heart forms... I haven't a clue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by emma01
And yea I see what you mean by necessary cause, and yea it is true, but i just dont see how anyone could want for the mother to die, and when people say abortions should be illegal, i dont think they mean it in a way that they would rather women die.
They may not want that to happen but it's what their viewpoint implies.

shimmeringfaerie April 11th 2010 06:01 AM
Re: Abortion???
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PunkRoxS9 (Post 363342)
Hey! Biology is my worst subject okay? I get squeamish so I don't listen well. I always thought it was an embryo, then a fetus, then a baby. Sorry if my terminology was wrong. But I am right about it not having a heart til its 6 weeks, and in my opinion that means its not really alive cuz its not breathing and not thinking.
I agree with YNF here. Breathing involves the lungs and thinking involves the brain. So why choose the heart as the key component in determining life?

losing touch. April 11th 2010 02:03 PM
Re: Abortion???
 
It should definitely be legal and i am pro choice. Some women are raped, some are not ready for a child, some cannot financially support that child and some just don't want a child. I don't think women should be forced into keeping a child that they essentially do not want or cannot support. We had a long debate on this not too long ago and i posted a lot in that thread so don't really want to repeat myself by posting an essay of a post.

DeletedAccount69 April 11th 2010 06:40 PM
Re: Abortion???
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by emma01 (Post 363430)


I dont think they should be ILLEGAL, i just think there has to be a good reason.
And yea I see what you mean by necessary cause, and yea it is true, but i just dont see how anyone could want for the mother to die, and when people say abortions should be illegal, i dont think they mean it in a way that they would rather women die.
See, that is the thing that makes the whole thing so hard. Yes, there are instances when people misuse abortions. However, how are doctors and stuff supposed to screen for a 'good reason'? It is almost impossible. I mean, they can say incest/rape but that leaves the door open for so many other things that can happen. Also, if they say incest/rape how are they going to prove it? I can't remember the statistic of how many rapes actually go unreported but I do know that only 2% of all rapes are reported. That is nothing compared to the amount of rapes that occur.

People that are pro-life don't think about what would happen if it was illegal. Or a lot of them say things like "it is the womans choice. So if she dies that is her problem." And in a way it is but imagine being in a situation where you are trapped, in trouble, etc. Sometimes you do not think clearly,etc.

Yes, abortion is not a good thing but like someone said it is a necessary evil.

emma01 April 11th 2010 09:16 PM
Re: Abortion???
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by !!!YOU'RE$NUCKING$FUTZ!!! (Post 363619)
They may not want that to happen but it's what their viewpoint implies.
Oh yes, it does! :) I understand that :)

emma01 April 11th 2010 11:25 PM
Re: Abortion???
 
This is getting really confusing :P How about I say I think unless its rape or going to threaten the mothers life, I disagree with abortion. If there is a young child having the baby, it should be adopted out to a family who can take proper care of it. I am fine with adoption, and believe that if a child has a baby, it should not be aborted, but given to a couple who want a baby, but are unable to have one.

L'espoir April 12th 2010 05:15 PM
Re: Abortion???
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by emma01 (Post 364148)
This is getting really confusing :P How about I say I think unless its rape or going to threaten the mothers life, I disagree with abortion. If there is a young child having the baby, it should be adopted out to a family who can take proper care of it. I am fine with adoption, and believe that if a child has a baby, it should not be aborted, but given to a couple who want a baby, but are unable to have one.
The world is too over-populated as it is, in my opinion. Why bring another child into the world when it is unwanted? There are plenty of children already needing adoption so there is no need to unecessarily bring more in. Why don't you just say you are pro choice (thats what it sounds like to me) because that way it means you believe women should have the choice rather than pro-life who believe 100% that you shouldn't have an abortion.

I, for example, don't particlarly love the idea of abortion BUT I'm pro choice because I believe women should have the option to choose and I think in some circumstances it's the right thing to do for the women. Who am I to tell everyone they shouldn't have an abortion? Shouldn't it be up to the person doing it? After all, they're the ones who have to live with it

emma01 April 12th 2010 08:55 PM
Re: Abortion???
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dement (Post 364634)
The world is too over-populated as it is, in my opinion. Why bring another child into the world when it is unwanted? There are plenty of children already needing adoption so there is no need to unecessarily bring more in. Why don't you just say you are pro choice (thats what it sounds like to me) because that way it means you believe women should have the choice rather than pro-life who believe 100% that you shouldn't have an abortion.

I, for example, don't particlarly love the idea of abortion BUT I'm pro choice because I believe women should have the option to choose and I think in some circumstances it's the right thing to do for the women. Who am I to tell everyone they shouldn't have an abortion? Shouldn't it be up to the person doing it? After all, they're the ones who have to live with it
You have got some good points about pro-choice, but the reason that I am not is because I dont think you should be able to abort a baby for any old reason.

L'espoir April 12th 2010 09:04 PM
Re: Abortion???
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by emma01 (Post 364781)
You have got some good points about pro-choice, but the reason that I am not is because I dont think you should be able to abort a baby for any old reason.
I don't think you should abort a baby for any old reason either but if you aren't pro choice then you are pro-life so therefor you support women having illegal, unsafe abortions, you support women having to give birth to rapists babies, you support underage girls who didn't understand what they were doing having babies and having to give up their life for it. You support bringing unwanted babies into the world when there is already too many of that stuff going on. All that is what's wrong with pro-life, women should have the choice.

emma01 April 13th 2010 01:00 AM
Re: Abortion???
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dement (Post 364787)
I don't think you should abort a baby for any old reason either but if you aren't pro choice then you are pro-life so therefor you support women having illegal, unsafe abortions, you support women having to give birth to rapists babies, you support underage girls who didn't understand what they were doing having babies and having to give up their life for it. You support bringing unwanted babies into the world when there is already too many of that stuff going on. All that is what's wrong with pro-life, women should have the choice.
Well that is true. I definately think it is awful for an unwanted child to be bought into the world, and to know its parents didn't want it. I definately am not pro-life though!

sexyyrockerr April 13th 2010 02:51 AM
Re: Abortion???
 
i disagree with and i'm against abortion unless the woman carrying the baby has risks like death..

shimmeringfaerie April 13th 2010 08:06 AM
Re: Abortion???
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sexyyrockerr (Post 364979)
i disagree with and i'm against abortion unless the woman carrying the baby has risks like death..
May I ask why? There have been plenty of examples in this thread of times when I, personally, would think that it would be completely acceptable to have an abortion. Why is it that you don't think any of those examples (like rape?) are reasonable?

Gaia April 13th 2010 09:22 AM
Re: Abortion???
 
I'm pro choice, no one has any right to force their views on other people.
Getting pregnant by accident is irresponsible, unless of course contraceptives fail. People who choose not to use contraception should not be raising a child in my opinion. It shows that they can barely look after themselves, let alone a baby.

ThrashAttack April 13th 2010 10:19 AM
Re: Abortion???
 
Quote:
People who choose not to use contraception should not be raising a child in my opinion. It shows that they can barely look after themselves, let alone a baby
I have to disagree with you there in my opinion. Everybody has the right to raise a Child i feel. Raising the next Generation is important.

shimmeringfaerie April 13th 2010 10:39 AM
Re: Abortion???
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThrashAttack (Post 365142)
I have to disagree with you there in my opinion. Everybody has the right to raise a Child i feel. Raising the next Generation is important.
You really think that everybody has the right to raise a child? What about rapists? What about abusive parents (sexually, physically or otherwise)? What about 14 year old girls who can't drive or even legally work in some places? What about severely mentally disabled people who can't look after themselves?

Unfortunately we can't stop people from becoming parents if they choose to. But in some cases, I think that it would be better if we could. Not everybody deserves the right to have and raise children.

Gaia April 13th 2010 11:35 AM
Re: Abortion???
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThrashAttack (Post 365142)
I have to disagree with you there in my opinion. Everybody has the right to raise a Child i feel. Raising the next Generation is important.
They may have the right to, but that doesn't mean they'll be good parents.

What I find ridiculous is that people wanting to adopt have to go through a lengthy process to determine if they will be fit and suitable parents, yet so many irresponsible people can have children whenever they wish to. Raising the next generation is important, and is why no one should be having children when they're not ready to.

her_beautiful_mistake April 13th 2010 01:23 PM
Re: Abortion???
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by emma01 (Post 363323)
Just saying, when people say they think it should be illegal, they are not necessarily saying it would be better to cause thousands of women to die! Im sure no one would want that, but they just dont believe in abortions :)
By saying you want it to be illegal, it follows that you're comfortable with thousands of women dying. That would be a direct concequence of making abortion illegal.

ThrashAttack April 13th 2010 01:55 PM
Re: Abortion???
 
Quote:
You really think that everybody has the right to raise a child? What about rapists? What about abusive parents (sexually, physically or otherwise)? What about 14 year old girls who can't drive or even legally work in some places? What about severely mentally disabled people who can't look after themselves?
What i meant was that having a child is a basic human right. If the parents get put into check then yes they can have kids unless they are under CONSTANT supervision.

emma01 April 13th 2010 09:43 PM
Re: Abortion???
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThrashAttack (Post 365225)
What i meant was that having a child is a basic human right. If the parents get put into check then yes they can have kids unless they are under CONSTANT supervision.
I am not sure if this actually happened or was just thought of, but is it right that in China, couples are limited to only one child. So once they have had a child, they do not have the right to have another, so in some places having a child is not a basic human right. If they aren't allowed the choice, why should rapists be allowed to have children?

shimmeringfaerie April 13th 2010 09:45 PM
Re: Abortion???
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThrashAttack (Post 365225)
What i meant was that having a child is a basic human right. If the parents get put into check then yes they can have kids unless they are under CONSTANT supervision.
But I don't really agree that it should be. Loki mentioned how much parents who want to adopt have to go through. I have to do a four year university course and then get a permit to even work with kids for only 6-7 hours a day. But just anyone can be a parent? How does that make sense?

My view of basic human rights are things that are absolutely essential. Shelter, food, water, safety etc. Basic human rights should be things that everybody needs and nobody "needs" a child.

liketheangel April 14th 2010 09:31 PM
Re: Abortion???
 
i also agree that it is a womens choice. i dont think i could have a surgical one.
but if i had just cause catch it early and you cant think of it as a child, my friend went through this recently. she had to get an abortion because well shes not in a position to raise a child. and she was torturing herself about it saying its a human life.
fact of the matter is. if u have it early. it is not life. it will grow to be.
i dont mind pro lifers. though i do if they feel a need to preach to people considering abortion because its a very tough time for people. its not a flippant thing.

also why is everyone so pro adoption. in my opinion seeing what it does to people not knowing where u come from. or why u were given up. adoption can be a terrible thing. leads to alot of heartache for both parties mother and child.

im not anti adoption i just dont think the choice should be i wont have an abortion because il have it adopted.

BabyIndia April 16th 2010 12:16 PM
Re: Abortion???
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShimmeringFaerie (Post 365504)
But I don't really agree that it should be. Loki mentioned how much parents who want to adopt have to go through. I have to do a four year university course and then get a permit to even work with kids for only 6-7 hours a day. But just anyone can be a parent? How does that make sense?

My view of basic human rights are things that are absolutely essential. Shelter, food, water, safety etc. Basic human rights should be things that everybody needs and nobody "needs" a child.
I did two years in a college level three Child Care And education, had CRB check, and I can work with children, and be left alone with them. what age are you wanting to work with? School age, Nursery age, what course are you doing?

L'espoir April 16th 2010 05:32 PM
Re: Abortion???
 
I think some people are missing a big point here; Why should anyone be able to force their views on others? If abortion was illegal then people who disagree with abortion are forcing their beliefs against it on people who might want one. If it is legal then if you don't agree with abortion then fine, don't get one. Why though, should that mean that other women can't get one either? That's what I think would be unfair if it was illegal.

DeletedAccount69 April 16th 2010 09:02 PM
Re: Abortion???
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dement (Post 367437)
I think some people are missing a big point here; Why should anyone be able to force their views on others? If abortion was illegal then people who disagree with abortion are forcing their beliefs against it on people who might want one. If it is legal then if you don't agree with abortion then fine, don't get one. Why though, should that mean that other women can't get one either? That's what I think would be unfair if it was illegal.

This is how I feel. We have no right to force our views on anyone. If it is illegal that is what is happening. If it is legal that does not mean we force people to get abortions.

Hell, I don't necessarily agree with abortion. I don't like it. I don't think it is something I could ever do but I have never been in a situation where I might need it. And to be honest I don't feel like I have the right to push my views/feelings on anyone else. Does that make sense?


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