Abortion???
 

Alright... so... a while ago me and my mother were talking about something and suddenly I brought up my brother (he was killed a couple years back) and i dont remember how, but she ended up confessing to me that she had an abortion after having me. I got really mad (still not talking to her) and she told me that my father was irrisponsible and all and that bringing another child into the world would be wrong. I got really mad and yelled at her "if it was so wrong then why would you even FUCK my drunk ass father? That is no excuse for murder"

I still feel really bad, but i dont want to talk to her...

My question is: what are your thoughts on abortion? Do you think it is wrong of what? I would like to know religious points so view, as well as others

Re: Abortion???
 

Re: Abortion???
 

Re: Abortion???
 

I don't agree with abortion, but switch the roles and imagine yourself in a woman who's considering abortion's shoes. Life isn't so simple and easy then is it?

I disagree with abortion so much that I don't even agree with the morning after pill, but I guess that makes me a hypocrite because I have used one before. The guy put the money in my hand, told me what to do, and walked away after he made it quite clear he had no intention of ever speaking to me again. I'm not super religious, but religious enough to feel hellfire licking at my feet every time I think about what I did.

It's not that I look down upon women who choose it, I just don't like the idea of it.

Re: Abortion???
 

Re: Abortion???
 

Re: Abortion???
 

I'm for a woman having a choice. Abortion is perfectly fine in certain situations, but it really depends on the person. I don't think it's wrong, I think it's responsible. If you know you can't care for the child, even if abortion isn't the best option, it's still an option.

Would I personally have one? Probably, since there is only one way I'm going to get pregnant, and I refuse to have a child that way. Sometimes someone does what they have to do, even if we don't agree with that, and it doesn't make that wrong.

Re: Abortion???
 

Re: Abortion???
 

Re: Abortion???
 

I am pro-choice. And not pro-choice in the way that people usually mean it, which is just pro-abortion. Personally, I would never get an abortion. But that's because I'm in a situation where my boyfriend and I didn't start having sex until we both accepted the existence of the tiny probability that I might get pregnant despite all the protection we use. Having a child now would not be ideal for us, but we would be able to care for it and I would never be able to live with myself if I had an abortion or gave it away.

However, I would never force those views on someone else. I don't think it's fair for anyone else to say that women shouldn't be allowed to choose for themselves or to judge those women who do choose abortion. Let me give you some scenarios:

1. A woman is raped and falls pregnant. Would you force her to bring that baby to term even though it would be a constant reminder of the trauma she experienced? Would you seriously force her to go through 40 weeks of hell because of something that was forced on to her?

2. A woman falls ill whilst pregnant. Bringing the baby to term would cause serious health risks (possible death) for both mother and child. Would you force her to take that risk?

3. A 12 year old girl falls pregnant. She has been neglected by her family all her life, never properly learnt about sex, and met this seemingly nice guy who took advantage of her. Would you force her to go through that pregnancy on her own, especially with all the health risks for a 12 year old giving birth?

And there are a million other situations like that. I do think that it is wrong for women to have abortions just because they weren't careful enough with their contraception. But there is no way to separate those women from those who should be allowed to have an abortion. And in all of the scenarios I've listed, adoption is not the best option because it's the carrying the baby to term that carries great health and emotional risks. Also the concept that "you shouldn't have sex if you can't handle a child" is irrelevant because these hypothetical women either didn't have the choice/knowledge about intercourse, or other problems arose after conception.

In a perfect world, abortion would be completely unnecessary. But this is the real world and women deserve to have the choice (I think men deserve a say too, but that's a totally different argument).

Re: Abortion???
 

I support abortions in most situations. The ones I don't care for are when the mother consistently gets abortions as a way of preventing birth due to failure of using things such as condoms, birth pill, etc... . I still support it here but I find it to be irresponsible and almost an abuse of abortion clinics.

In the case of the OP, there's several things to consider first, such as was the sex consensual, did the father provide enough monetary and "parenting material" to help your mother, was the financial situation between your mother and father generally poor, was your mother facing immense stress that having a baby pushed her over the edge to make her think she couldn't handle all of it so she needed to reduce some stress and many other factors. What's clear though is since she did not have an abortion with you, one of these factor(s) or another factor(s) were different, and so the situations when she had the abortion versus when she had you were different. Something must have led her to believe that whatever the problem(s) were before, they were reduced or even eliminated when she had you, allowing her to be a more fit mother.

Yelling at her is simply childish because if you want answers, talk to her about it and have her explain the differences in the situations. Her having sex with your father could be anything from her also being drunk, him being violent, the two being consensual, etc... .

Re: Abortion???
 

I am very strongly pro-life. I personally do not believe that abortion is justified in any case (except potentially in a case when the pregnancy causes severe danger to the health of the mother). That being said, I would be willing to compromise and allow it in the cases of rape and incest if it meant that it would otherwise be banned. I personally still would disagree with those cases from a moral standpoint, but it is a compromise I would be willing to make. The reason I disagree with it is because even in those cases, I think that it is ending the life of one (innocent) human being because of the decisions of another.

What it comes down to for me is that I see it as killing a human being. The baby/fetus has human DNA and is a separate life form from its mother. What more is necessary for it to be human? The question boils down to when life begins, and as I see it you really have two choices: at conception, or we don't know when it begins. I highly doubt that most people would condone a doctor "aborting" a baby at 9 months as it was being "born," but if we want to say humanity begins at birth then that should be just fine because it hasn't "emerged" from its mother. Does life begin when a heart forms? When eyes form? No one can agree on when life begins, just look at how abortion laws have developed. So, like I said, the options are either at conception or "we don't know." If we don't know, how can we morally feel ok with ending what might possibly be a life?

Re: Abortion???
 

Re: Abortion???
 

Honestly, I have more problems with this than I do with the pro-life mindset in general. Having a strong opinion is one thing, but advocating such a warlike, divisive mindset is not okay.

Kira, if you want my honest opinion, it's this: what's wrong, regardless of how you feel about abortion, is being angry with someone for making what they thought was the best decision under really difficult circumstances.



Your opinion, not fact. I think we all could stand to distinguish between the two a little more carefully.

Re: Abortion???
 

And I can feel for people in that situation, I really can. I have a sister that was raped, so while I can not cite first hand experience it has hit close to home. But, what it still comes down to for me is that you are ending the life of an innocent human being because of the actions of another. I just can't be morally ok with that. Also, it obviously wouldn't be necessary to keep the child, i.e. adoption and all.

One example of the irony of the lack of value placed on human life is that it is a crime to "destroy" a Bald Eagle egg (i.e. end the life of the "fetal" bald eagle), but you can get paid to end the life of a fetal human. Whether people want to call it a "baby" or not, the fact is that from conception it has distinct and separate DNA from the mother, and that DNA is human DNA. Simply from a scientific perspective, I don't see how we can say that something is not a person (i.e. human) until a certain point, when biologically it clearly is from conception.

Re: Abortion???
 

Personally I could never have one, but I don't think that gives me the right to make that decision for someone else. I think adoption is a much better choice.

Re: Abortion???
 

The reason it bothers me so much is that if my mother had that baby, i wouldnt be alone after my brother was killed

Re: Abortion???
 

Re: Abortion???
 

I don't how I'm warlike. Emotional would be a better word. Put yourself in my shoes. You're pro-life, and your father wants you to have an abortion. Just think about it.

Re: Abortion???
 

I can understand why that would bother you, being lonely sucks, but that's not a reason to be angry at her. There's no way she could have known what would happen to your brother, and you shouldn't have children just for the sake of having more children. If you think that two children is the right number for your family, then it probably is.


That's not what I was referring to:


That's warlike. Or terribly worded, take your pick.

Re: Abortion???
 

Just as pro-life arguments have holes, here's one in this: Why should the mother's choice take away the choice of the child? Doesn't that child have the right to choose if they want to live?

Re: Abortion???
 

Re: Abortion???
 

So what if a person believes that you should be able to abandon a baby in the wilderness as a form of "aborting" it, a la the ancient Greeks? It is the woman that would have to care for the baby, to carry the financial burden, etc..

Having the belief that you should be able to kill a human being (speaking from a genetic standpoint the baby/fetus is human) doesn't make it morally right to do so. If I believe that I should be able to kill another adult, it doesn't make it right, but under that reasoning it should be ok.

Re: Abortion???
 

Re: Abortion???
 

But the child isn't in a position to make that choice. Parents make a lot of choices for their children when they are young. What clothes they wear, if/where they attend school, what toys they have, what TV they can watch.

I don't see how you can argue that if the pregnancy is going to be a physically and emotionally traumatic experience for the mother and baby, that you would still force that mother to carry the baby to term. And then when the baby is born, you would make it grow up learning that it's dad was a rapist or that it's the product of incest? No one here who is "pro-life" has yet to explain how that is "right".

Even if you choose adoption, that baby could grow up feeling worthless and unwanted because its own parents gave it away. I'm sure there are a lot of adopted kids who feel like that. And personally, I think it's immoral to make a child suffer through that all their lives.

I don't like the idea that there is a blanket "moral right" that fits every scenario and situation. If you look at the scenarios I listed in my earlier post, I honestly have no idea how you could say that forcing a woman to give birth in those situations is morally right. You say that abortion is killing another human being? Well, abortion seems like a much more humane method than forcing child and mother to risk their lives and their physical and emotional well-being because someone else told them they had to.

Re: Abortion???
 

So should parents be able to kill their non-infant children? I have a hard time going with your line of reasoning, because that is the logical conclusion with that line of thought.

If you will notice, I did say earlier that in cases where it causes serious health risks for the mother I would be ok with it. At that point, I don't see it as "abortion" so much as making a choice of saving the life of the mother at the expense of the child, as not doing it would potentially kill both.

Re: Abortion???
 

Of course that's not what I'm saying. And it's hardly a logical conclusion. Having a baby and then killing it because you don't want it anymore is different. In that case, you can give it up for adoption. But when you're pregnant, you can't give the fetus to someone else. The only choice is to abort it if you are incapable of carrying it to term (for physical or emotional reasons).


Except it is still abortion. You can't say that it's not just because you think that scenario is okay. My point is that you can't say abortion is wrong if you agree with it in some circumstances.

Also, "health risks" are not just physical. So are you saying that you would be okay with abortion in a situation where the mother and/or child would seriously suffer emotionally? Like rape? Or even in a situation where the woman is young and would be kicked out of home if she were to not have an abortion?

Re: Abortion???
 

Re: Abortion???
 

The procedure is the same, that much is true, but the reasons and situation are completely different. If a mother will die without a medication, but the medication can harm or kill the baby, I give the mother the medication. It's the same principle in a different circumstance. It is saving the life of the mother at the expense of the life of the child, which I view as completely different. It is not simply a mother choosing that her life is to difficult to have a child.

And, as far as my comment on your line of reasoning, using that line of reasoning DOES lead to that conclusion logically. There are much better ways to make that argument.

Like I said earlier, what it comes down to for me is ending an innocent human life, which I think is wrong. Would the child choose a hard life over no life? We don't know, how about we give them that choice?

Re: Abortion???
 

Re: Abortion???
 

I would disagree that it is all or nothing.

Re: Abortion???
 

And if the mother might die or have some other serious health problems? Is it not okay then because the health risks aren't definite?

So basically, you're saying that suicide is okay, but abortion isn't? That the unborn child who can't survive on its own has more rights than the mother?

Re: Abortion???
 

Re: Abortion???
 

Re: Abortion???
 

I'm kinda mixed to be honest.

Yes you have and opionion but it's your mothers body..

I'm mixed because.

If I got pregnant and they told me having the baby would kill me, or the child would be severly disabled and wouldn't be able to do anything for themselves, then yes I'd go with the abortion.

But if the baby was healty and I was going to be okay, I'd have the child, once I'd had the child if I found I couldn't cope/want the child I'd consider adoption that way the child got the life he/she deserves, and I don't feel bad.

I'm Kinda against it mainly because it's unlikely i'll ever have children, and it annoys me when people get abortions as a form of birth control...

Then again it's the womens choice, don't let anyone make you do something you don't want it's your body I say. :)

Re: Abortion???
 

i believe in a womans right to choose but i think people should be responsible enoough to not let it happen in the first place and if it does happen and you cant care for the child i think adoption is great.

Re: Abortion???
 

I think it's situational.

I'm against it if people are having sex just for the fun of it. Sex leads to pregnancy. It's not a surprise. Just about everyone past the 5th grade knows. Sex doesn't equal love. Love is the promise of being able to stick together through thick or thin. If you get pregnant because of "love," well there's the symbol of your love, raise it and care for it together.

My only issue is if it's caused by rape or if it could be life threatening. I don't think life should be taken away, but at the same time, I don't think it's right to force someone to carry a child they never had a say in.

I'm pretty much against people using abortion as a form of birth control.

Re: Abortion???
 

You need a bit of correction on your English skills. Murder is defined as the unlawful killing of a person. Abortion is not illegal, therefore it is not murder. You can't really have an opinion on whether it is murder or not.

I am pro-choice. I do not believe I have the right to force my beliefs onto others. If you feel it is best for yourself to have an abortion, that's none of my business. While I do realize most people who have abortion did have unprotected sex, there are also many who were responsible but got unlucky, as well as those who were raped. I'm pretty sure birth control and condoms both have 99% effectiveness, so even if you used both, that's still 0.0001% chance that both will fail. I realize that's not huge, but it's still possible.

I think it was very selfish of you to get upset with your mother the way you described. She clearly made a decision that she felt was best for her family(including you). Sometimes people make mistakes. A child is too important a thing to be punishment for making a mistake.

Re: Abortion???
 

Re: Abortion???
 

I personally don't think I could ever have an abortion but I believe that if other women want to, then that's their choice. And I am not going to judge them for it. I have no idea what they were going through. I doubt it is an easy situation for the person to be in.

I honestly think, you need to cool down a bit, then talk to your mother again. Don't be so harsh on her. She didn't have to tell you anything. She choose to. Probably thinking you'd understand. I know it might be hard but just try to be a bit more understanding.