People who support Hamas, why?

[Proud90sKid]

Why do you support Hamas- a militia group absolutely terrorizing an established country (a country established due to the Holocaust no less) over Israel when Palestine never existed as a country? They were just a "people". Never became a state. The entire middle east is fucking Muslim and a complete shithole because of it (women do not have the same rights in Muslim countries and thats an objective fact), let the Jews have one state! A state that they rightfully own! Go make Palestine or Hamas in Iran, I don't care. And fuck off out of the Gaza strip. The Jews should have Israel and all of it too. I hope the conflict ends with Hamas/Palestine losing any remaining foothold they had in Israel. Hopefully "Palestine" (now called "Hamas") will finally get completely crushed.

In case you empathize more with Muslims for whatever reason, go look at what they have to say about the issue on Jewish discussion boards online. It is anti-semitic as hell to not support Israel. Many are getting banned from random subreddits by bots for "hate speech" just because they support their nation! Because apparently 9/11 worked at getting western liberals to support the "religion of peace". Initially, there was a lot of anti-Islam sentiment, but political correctness overcompensated by now favoring Muslims in everything.

Am I missing something? A country is being attacked by an internal militia (essentially a terrorist organization) by people who are making claim to land that isn't theirs. Is there something that I am misunderstanding? To me it seems like Hamas is a terrorist organization fighting for a nation that doesn't exist and then saying THEY are the victim. Disgusting. Please tell me that I am misconceiving something and that there is more to it than that

[Hiraeth.]

I think it's a bit unfair to bring 9/11 into this argument. Islamist militants have existed long before September 11th 2001, long before Osama bin Laden. Hamas has no affiliation with the mudjahideen movement of Afghanistan during the 1980s, the group that ultimately led to the rise of the Taliban. The mudjahideen's, one branch eventually becoming the Taliban, came to power in resistance over the Soviet invasion. Russia is supporting the Hamas, which makes no sense if you are clumping all Islamist groups together; Vladimir Putin was against the resistance fighters during his time with the KGB in the USSR.

Islamists have existed for fifteen hundred years, since Mohammed journey out of the Arabian peninsula and ravaged the lands in the Middle East. Land that rightfully belonged the the Jews and the sparse Christians. Islamists have not only attacked Jews in the past millennia, they have also attacked Christians. I suggest reading up the ideology of Islamists, analyzing the Koran, and understanding the philosophy of "normal" Muslims. These are three very different things — so it is also unfair to assume all Muslims are terrorists wanting to get rid of Jews and Christians. Just look at this from the perspective of Christianity; it's just as bad in America as it is in the Middle East.

While we're broaching the subject of extremism — Benjamin Netanyahu is basically committing a genocide of Palestinians. He isn't anti-Muslim, he is anti-Palestine. He wants Israel to be a unified country at the expense of Palestinians. He will do anything he can to eradicate the Muslim population from the Gaza Strip and West Bank. He doesn't care who falls in the line of fire, he will do what he can to slaughter these people. He hasn't made it easy for Palestinians to leave because there's no way out of the Gaza Strip or the West Bank. They'd have to go through Israel and if they choose to do that, they put themselves at risk of an attack; though they're already being attacked at home.

I think the ideas the OP has established is very extreme. You are supporting Israel for the wrong reason. Finally, I want to say invoking the Holocaust is the probably worse than invoking September 11th. This is probably the same extremist, very inappropriate excuse Benjamin Netanyahu is giving as to why he's launching all these attacks against Palestine. I'm certainly not saying Palestine isn't in the wrong here. If we're going to be pointing any fingers at anyone, I would point fingers at the empires that occupied the area. Mandatory Palestine was a split-off of the British Empire. This occurred in the early 1920s, around the same time unrest was rising in the Middle East due to religion and colonialism.

Understanding and preserving history, avoiding fake information, and educating ourselves on what is/isn't are so important today more than ever.

[TH Anonymous]

[SIZE="a"]

Originally Posted by Butterscotch.

I think it's a bit unfair to bring 9/11 into this argument. Islamist militants have existed long before September 11th 2001, long before Osama bin Laden. Hamas has no affiliation with the mudjahideen movement of Afghanistan during the 1980s, the group that ultimately led to the rise of the Taliban. The mudjahideen's, one branch eventually becoming the Taliban, came to power in resistance over the Soviet invasion. Russia is supporting the Hamas, which makes no sense if you are clumping all Islamist groups together; Vladimir Putin was against the resistance fighters during his time with the KGB in the USSR.

Islamists have existed for fifteen hundred years, since Mohammed journey out of the Arabian peninsula and ravaged the lands in the Middle East. Land that rightfully belonged the the Jews and the sparse Christians. Islamists have not only attacked Jews in the past millennia, they have also attacked Christians. I suggest reading up the ideology of Islamists, analyzing the Koran, and understanding the philosophy of "normal" Muslims. These are three very different things — so it is also unfair to assume all Muslims are terrorists wanting to get rid of Jews and Christians. Just look at this from the perspective of Christianity; it's just as bad in America as it is in the Middle East.

While we're broaching the subject of extremism — Benjamin Netanyahu is basically committing a genocide of Palestinians. He isn't anti-Muslim, he is anti-Palestine. He wants Israel to be a unified country at the expense of Palestinians. He will do anything he can to eradicate the Muslim population from the Gaza Strip and West Bank. He doesn't care who falls in the line of fire, he will do what he can to slaughter these people. He hasn't made it easy for Palestinians to leave because there's no way out of the Gaza Strip or the West Bank. They'd have to go through Israel and if they choose to do that, they put themselves at risk of an attack; though they're already being attacked at home.

I think the ideas the OP has established is very extreme. You are supporting Israel for the wrong reason. Finally, I want to say invoking the Holocaust is the probably worse than invoking September 11th. This is probably the same extremist, very inappropriate excuse Benjamin Netanyahu is giving as to why he's launching all these attacks against Palestine. I'm certainly not saying Palestine isn't in the wrong here. If we're going to be pointing any fingers at anyone, I would point fingers at the empires that occupied the area. Mandatory Palestine was a split-off of the British Empire. This occurred in the early 1920s, around the same time unrest was rising in the Middle East due to religion and colonialism.

Understanding and preserving history, avoiding fake information, and educating ourselves on what is/isn't are so important today more than ever.

I have both Jewish and Arab heritage and I think you explain the situation very well. Thank you so much with treating this very intense topic with balance, compassion and grace.

To the OP:
honestly feel so upset whenever there are discussions about this because 99.9% of the time, ot isn't a civil discussion and it is either anti-Jewish or anti-arab/anti-Muslim. This happened my entire life and it sucks.

There was a 3-part lecture I had viewed last year that was a Moroccoan Jewish Professor who explained the conflict with so much grace, empathy and able to use his wise mind to show both perspectives. He even admitted that he isn't part of the Muslim community so he cannot truly explain their side but he attempted to in the hopes that authentic Palestinian and Muslim voices as well as voices of Jewsmay be represented as accurately as possible. This was many months before October 7th, 2023. My great aunt was one of the people killed by Hamas. She was an elderly woman in her 70s.

I heard a Holocaust survivor speak several months ago, a few weeks before October 7th actually. Her message is to love everyone even those who are different religions. That's an authentic voice of a Holocaust survivor. I don't think attaching a political agenda to the Holocaust is fair. Additionally, when a country is being controlled by corruption, terrorists etc it makes it seem like an entire religion or culture is wrong but that isn't quite fair. How many Muslims do you personally know? Moreover, how many Jews do you personally know? Are you yourself either of them?

And for the record I do not support Hamas. Hamas is a terrorist group. So is the KKK in the United States who call themselves Christian. You and I both know, the KKK does not represent an ordinary human who practices Christianity.[/size]

[Blackwing]

Originally Posted by Butterscotch.

I think it's a bit unfair to bring 9/11 into this argument. Islamist militants have existed long before September 11th 2001, long before Osama bin Laden. Hamas has no affiliation with the mudjahideen movement of Afghanistan during the 1980s, the group that ultimately led to the rise of the Taliban. The mudjahideen's, one branch eventually becoming the Taliban, came to power in resistance over the Soviet invasion. Russia is supporting the Hamas, which makes no sense if you are clumping all Islamist groups together; Vladimir Putin was against the resistance fighters during his time with the KGB in the USSR.

Islamists have existed for fifteen hundred years, since Mohammed journey out of the Arabian peninsula and ravaged the lands in the Middle East. Land that rightfully belonged the the Jews and the sparse Christians. Islamists have not only attacked Jews in the past millennia, they have also attacked Christians. I suggest reading up the ideology of Islamists, analyzing the Koran, and understanding the philosophy of "normal" Muslims. These are three very different things — so it is also unfair to assume all Muslims are terrorists wanting to get rid of Jews and Christians. Just look at this from the perspective of Christianity; it's just as bad in America as it is in the Middle East.

While we're broaching the subject of extremism — Benjamin Netanyahu is basically committing a genocide of Palestinians. He isn't anti-Muslim, he is anti-Palestine. He wants Israel to be a unified country at the expense of Palestinians. He will do anything he can to eradicate the Muslim population from the Gaza Strip and West Bank. He doesn't care who falls in the line of fire, he will do what he can to slaughter these people. He hasn't made it easy for Palestinians to leave because there's no way out of the Gaza Strip or the West Bank. They'd have to go through Israel and if they choose to do that, they put themselves at risk of an attack; though they're already being attacked at home.

I think the ideas the OP has established is very extreme. You are supporting Israel for the wrong reason. Finally, I want to say invoking the Holocaust is the probably worse than invoking September 11th. This is probably the same extremist, very inappropriate excuse Benjamin Netanyahu is giving as to why he's launching all these attacks against Palestine. I'm certainly not saying Palestine isn't in the wrong here. If we're going to be pointing any fingers at anyone, I would point fingers at the empires that occupied the area. Mandatory Palestine was a split-off of the British Empire. This occurred in the early 1920s, around the same time unrest was rising in the Middle East due to religion and colonialism.

Understanding and preserving history, avoiding fake information, and educating ourselves on what is/isn't are so important today more than ever.

Very well explained and agree with you on this

[Dawn.]

Unfortunately, you get extremists despite what nationality you are.

[dehavenar]

Thanks for the information!

[FONT=""][COLOR=""][SIZE=""][FONT=""][COLOR=""][SIZE=""]

Originally Posted by TH Anonymous

[SIZE="a"]

I have both Jewish and Arab heritage and I think you explain the situation very well. Thank you so much with treating this very intense topic with balance, compassion and grace.

To the OP:
honestly feel so upset whenever there are discussions about this because 99.9% of the time, ot isn't a civil discussion and it is either anti-Jewish or anti-arab/anti-Muslim. This happened my entire life and it sucks.

There was a 3-part lecture I had viewed last year that was a Moroccoan Jewish Professor who explained the conflict with so much grace, empathy and able to use his wise mind to show both perspectives. He even admitted that he isn't part of the Muslim community so he cannot truly explain their side but he attempted to in the hopes that authentic Palestinian and Muslim voices as well as voices of Jewsmay be represented as accurately as possible. This was many months before October 7th, 2023. My great aunt was one of the people killed by Hamas. She was an elderly woman in her 70s.

I heard a Holocaust survivor speak several months ago, a few weeks before October 7th actually. Her message is to love everyone even those who are different religions. That's an authentic voice of a Holocaust survivor. I don't think attaching a political agenda to the Holocaust is fair. Additionally, when a country is being controlled by corruption, terrorists etc it makes it seem like an entire religion or culture is wrong but that isn't quite fair. How many Muslims do you personally know? Moreover, how many Jews do you personally know? Are you yourself either of them?

And for the record I do not support Hamas. Hamas is a terrorist group. So is the KKK in the United States who call themselves Christian. You and I both know, the KKK does not represent an ordinary human who practices Christianity.[/size]

So I was the one who posted this a few months ago. I think that people going to the extreme calling Israel committing a genocide is unfair and simply untrue. Hamas which is a terrorist group has terrorists in hospitals, in civilian homes etc. Secondly, Israel is not the same as Christopher Columbus stealing land from ingenious people or Europeans starting a black slave trade.

Israel is the Jewish people's homeland and it always has been. Before the Holocaust there were Jews living there. What I would hope is that it would be less politicized and more of a collaborative problem solving process between Jews and Arabs. However, terrorists make that complicated. High emotions and nationalism does too. That's what it is. Not genocide. Bring the hostages home. Palestinians: You need to accept that your leaders is a terrorist group and advocate appropriately. Jews: Let's work internally on improving how we interact with our neighbors and we can love our nation while also thinking critically about our actions and ways to improve. Protesters in the United States who are joining protests because they want to be part of the drama and have no clue what is going on: Go join a sports team. Stop feeding off of serious human issues.[/size][/color][/font][/size][/color][/font]

[Matthew851]

The way I see this, Hamas attacked first, so Israel has the full right to fight back. What do you want them to do? Ait there and get taken over. I know it is more complicated then this, but I try to stay out of politics.