Triggering: Ukraine and Russia.

[Dawn.]

Has anyone else been following the situation? What are you thoughts?

[MWF]

Ugh, there's so much to say on this. From my viewpoint though, I was originally sympathetic to Russia (pre-invasion)- NATO has expanded considerably since the USSR disbanded, which effectively puts NATO troops two countries away from Russia. I don't think it would have made a difference, but NATO should have made it clear from the start that they would never accept Ukraine. Imagine if Russia had some sort of alliance with Central American countries, had troops stationed there, and was training troops in Mexico. America would be freaking out constantly, saying Russia was preparing an invasion.

As it is right now, I actually have a feeling that this attack might fail. Not only has Ukraine been holding stronger than expected, but the younger generation in Russia appears to be very disturbed by this invasion. There have been a lot of protesters getting arrested there and Russia's stock market collapsed the day they invaded. It's also such a poorly messaged invasion; there's no flimsy pretext for defense, so Putin just looks like a war criminal to his own country.

I think the US and NATO should hold out for peace talks in spite of everything that's going on. Putin has talked about using nukes, and its hard to tell what China's position is. If this escalates more, we're all screwed.

I can't believe I'm about to defend Russia — in a way — but I think they were a lot more low-key and in the background before Vladimir Putin became president. Sure, they were assholes then; but they stayed where they belonged and did their own thing, probably humility after USSR disbandment.

All Putin cares about is wreaking havoc on the former Soviet Bloc, and the Ukraine is an easy target. I also don't see why the Ukraine has to be part of NATO. I don't understand a whole lot about it so I won't say much; but wasn't it established shortly after WW2? Why do we still have it?

[Everglow.]

I'm not an expert on Russian or Ukranian politics and I admittedly don't know much about NATO, but what's happening in Ukraine is absolutely horrible and the images and stories I've been seeing on TV are terrifying. I feel sorry for the Ukrainian people who are being hurt and killed and displaced because of a war that shouldn't have been started. I feel sorry for the Russian people who are likely going to be tarred with the same brush all because their leader actioned the murder of innocent people. I think it's awful that in 2022, this kind of thing is still happening.

[WhisperingSilence]

The situation actually frightens me.. I've done like quite a-bit of reading up on it all and from what I've read on the abc news site said that unless Russia attack a NATO country there is not much of risk other countries getting involved. It still scares me, I've been watching a-lot of the news and the scenes they are showing on the news are really worrying, its hard to watch, I just hope everything is sorted real soon. It's really sad that this has happened and Putin doesn't seem to care about the damage he does or what he causes it's like all Putin wants is Ukraine.
I do feel as though the sanctions many governments and counties have placed upon Russia will not help and may only aggrevate a already tense and volatile situation.. The sanctions will cause problems in other countries and here in England we are already seeing this, people are panic buying, prices have gone up, and there are massive queues for fuel/petrol with petrol /fuel stations running out.
I think Countries need to accept Refugees and displaced people from Ukraine, they didn't ask for this war, there are terrified and petrified children fleeing, these are scenes we are used to seeing in places such as Aleppo , Syria and Afghanistan.
However that being said I do not want Russia to attack a NATO country or for a NATO country to attack Russia as the consequences will be very bad and will result in WW3.
Hopefully though the imposed sanctions may stop Putin and make him back down however I feel that is very unlikely and Putin will continue his wrath and I feel like Putin wants a war and won't stop till he's either got Ukraine or has got WW3. Either way the situation is very worrying and frightening.
I feel for everyone in Ukraine, as I cannot begin to imagine how scared they are feeling.I am however glad that Poland and other surrounding countries are stepping up and opening up their borders and helping these people who have been displaced etc.

[MWF]

Well, as of day 3... This is one of the most incompetent invasions imaginable. We don't know everything yet obviously, and maybe we're just getting pro-Ukraine propaganda, but it appears Putin thought he could blitz the country and force a quick surrender. Not happening, and this invasion is costing Russia tons of money and resources. That's not even mentioning Russia's place on the world stage and the other consequences they'll have domestically.

But... nukes. WW3 is still high risk until Putin is gone.

There's some Ukrainian Intel that is stating that Belarus is talking about joining the Russian invasion. This would be very bad.

[Dawn.]

I just wonder how about all the other countries that are in disarray at the moment and how they are.

[Clarent]

Polish here.

I'm usually the one to laugh at the idea of things like national pride, because nationality is something you have literally zero control over, and being born over one specific part of the planet doesn't really make you any better than anybody else. Being proud in your history is weird too, considering you had no impact on how it happened, with you not yet existing and all.

But Poland has been nothing short of fucking amazing with this. Almost half a million refugees from Ukraine has arrived so far, and the entire country, including, weirdly enough, basically every single political party no matter the leaning, agreed this is the correct thing to do. People have been donating everything, from food, medicines, children's toys, sweets, fuel, inviting the fleeing Ukrainians to stay with them. I myself donated money to a large charity aimed at helping the refugees, and I've seen and read posts from my own friends and ex-friends, offering help, rooms to stay, sharing information about who can help who... It's quite uplifting, considering how we Poles can get quite fragmented, and love to complain.

The war itself is obviously an absolute atrocity. Worries about NATO's intervention triggering WW3 I think are a bit too late now. That is already happening, because IF (and this is a big if) Ukraine does lose, who says what's next? Czech Republic? Molodva? Slovenia? Poland? All of those have a history of being under Soviet control post-WW2, and I think Putin's already proven that he doesn't actually give a shit about what the West says and demands of him - what with all the war crimes, shooting at children, Russian forces using Ukrainian combat suits to blend in (actual war crime btw), bombings of cities and areas of zero military importance etc.

There might come to a point when Ukraine will be so battered that there will be nothing of value left anyway, and a nuke will be a quick dot under an i.

I'm also not so sure about the effect of sanctions, because the biggest Russian banks (coincidentally also those dealing with gas and oil trade, go fucking figure) haven't been affected. So yeah. Regular Russians get battered with increasingly weakening currency and an increasing threat of Western retaliation, while the rich ones have already peaced out with their families, away from any danger, straight into their multi million dollar properties.

[Starseeker]

Polish here as well.

Originally Posted by Clarent

Polish here.
But Poland has been nothing short of fucking amazing with this. Almost half a million refugees from Ukraine has arrived so far, and the entire country, including, weirdly enough, basically every single political party no matter the leaning, agreed this is the correct thing to do. People have been donating everything, from food, medicines, children's toys, sweets, fuel, inviting the fleeing Ukrainians to stay with them. I myself donated money to a large charity aimed at helping the refugees, and I've seen and read posts from my own friends and ex-friends, offering help, rooms to stay, sharing information about who can help who... It's quite uplifting, considering how we Poles can get quite fragmented, and love to complain.

I agree completely. I have bought medicine to be transported into Ukraine and many, many people are doing the same or similar. To be honest, I haven't heard anything different than utter condemnation of this war from other Poles.

Originally Posted by Ethereal.

I also don't see why the Ukraine has to be part of NATO. I don't understand a whole lot about it so I won't say much; but wasn't it established shortly after WW2? Why do we still have it?

I can't believe what I have just read. Is this some kind of US mindset?

Civilians' houses (civilians just like us, leading their lives just like us) are being bombed and you people are talking about some stock market shit? NATO? Or if the Ukraine should even exist? Yes, countries smaller than the US do exist and we do have our own national identities and would not like to be absorbed by Russia just because we're smaller countries bordering with it or because some of these countries used to be Soviet republics against their will
Maybe you don't see it, but here in Poland it's happening. The refugees are visible, there are special accomodation places being organised for them, many Poles are taking fleeing Ukrainians into their own homes, and most of us do know some Ukrainian people who are our friends working, studying, living in Poland.

[Dawn.]

I wonder if this will lead to WWIII.

I can't believe what I have just read. Is this some kind of US mindset?

Civilians' houses (civilians just like us, leading their lives just like us) are being bombed and you people are talking about some stock market shit? NATO? Or if the Ukraine should even exist? Yes, countries smaller than the US do exist and we do have our own national identities and would not like to be absorbed by Russia just because we're smaller countries bordering with it or because some of these countries used to be Soviet republics against their will
Maybe you don't see it, but here in Poland it's happening. The refugees are visible, there are special accomodation places being organised for them, many Poles are taking fleeing Ukrainians into their own homes, and most of us do know some Ukrainian people who are our friends working, studying, living in Poland.[/size][/color][/font]

US citizen here and thank you for this comment. I saw the original comment about NATO but had minimal spoons to reply. There have been some US Citizens saying similar things which has been astounding to me. Ukraine deserves its independence. I've actually seen a good analogy where Russia is an abusive ex and Ukraine is the girlfriend whose basically trying to get free. I didn't need that analogy to be made but I feel like it was written because so many people aren't comprehending the situation.

I've been so happy to see all that Poland is doing for Ukrainian citizens. Tonight I heard that Russia attacked apartment complexes and my first thought was hoping the citizens are safe. I truly hope that the Ukrainian citizens that are still there can find safety.


Adding that things are even more serious now. There's some serious stuff going on at chernobyl and Boris Johnson is calling for an emergency meeting with the UN. I've also heard that some atomic agency is on 24/7 watch because of this.

[WhisperingSilence]

Here in England donation points have been set up where we can donate food items like pasta etc, clothes , toiletries, toys and blankets to be sent to Ukraine, and Poland and other countries that are accepting refugees and the displaced. I believe that at some point Putin will have to retreat, his soldiers don't want to fight they were under the impression they were on a training exercise or were going to help Ukraine not a war like this. Putin will most likely be assassinated at some point too. its a horrid situation and I hope that it is all over soon not that Ukraine will ever be the same again as its now a war torn country thats been destroyed. The sad part is there are innocent victims in Russia and Ukraine both caught up in the war.

[Dawn.]

Originally Posted by WhisperingSilence

Here in England donation points have been set up where we can donate food items like pasta etc, clothes , toiletries, toys and blankets to be sent to Ukraine, and Poland and other countries that are accepting refugees and the displaced. I believe that at some point Putin will have to retreat, his soldiers don't want to fight they were under the impression they were on a training exercise or were going to help Ukraine not a war like this. Putin will most likely be assassinated at some point too. its a horrid situation and I hope that it is all over soon not that Ukraine will ever be the same again as its now a war torn country thats been destroyed. The sad part is there are innocent victims in Russia and Ukraine both caught up in the war.

There are a lot of Russians that are against the war as well.

[WhisperingSilence]

Originally Posted by Dawn.

There are a lot of Russians that are against the war as well.

I know thats why I said the sad part is theres innocent victims in Ukraine and Russia.

[Starseeker]

Originally Posted by .:Vellichor:.

US citizen here and thank you for this comment. I saw the original comment about NATO but had minimal spoons to reply. There have been some US Citizens saying similar things which has been astounding to me. Ukraine deserves its independence. I've actually seen a good analogy where Russia is an abusive ex and Ukraine is the girlfriend whose basically trying to get free. I didn't need that analogy to be made but I feel like it was written because so many people aren't comprehending the situation.

I've been so happy to see all that Poland is doing for Ukrainian citizens. Tonight I heard that Russia attacked apartment complexes and my first thought was hoping the citizens are safe. I truly hope that the Ukrainian citizens that are still there can find safety.

Adding that things are even more serious now. There's some serious stuff going on at chernobyl and Boris Johnson is calling for an emergency meeting with the UN. I've also heard that some atomic agency is on 24/7 watch because of this.

Thank you Jenna

[Dawn.]

Originally Posted by WhisperingSilence

I know thats why I said the sad part is theres innocent victims in Ukraine and Russia.

Yeah I know and I am agreeing with you.

[WhisperingSilence]

Originally Posted by Dawn.

Yeah I know and I am agreeing with you.

Ohh ok I misunderstood my bad

[Dawn.]

Originally Posted by WhisperingSilence

Ohh ok I misunderstood my bad

All good!

A US Journalist has died recently. It is all sad. I'm glad there are journalists out there risking their lives to keep covering this humanitarian crisis but it's sad that this is all taking place and they (as well as Ukrainian citizens) are having their lives put in jeopardy because of Putin.

[Dawn.]

Originally Posted by .:Vellichor:.

A US Journalist has died recently. It is all sad. I'm glad there are journalists out there risking their lives to keep covering this humanitarian crisis but it's sad that this is all taking place and they (as well as Ukrainian citizens) are having their lives put in jeopardy because of Putin.

This is really awful for a life to be lost because of a job.

[Proud90sKid]

I feel so bad for them, espescially the males of Ukraine.

How about the women and children of Ukraine? The Russians treat them like absolute garbage. My heart breaks for all of them.

Originally Posted by Proud90sKid

I feel so bad for them, espescially the males of Ukraine.

I'm curious why you feel so bad for the men when the woman and children are being murdered and brutalized as well. It's kind of a weird statement to pick and choose who you feel bad for.

[Proud90sKid]

Originally Posted by .:Vellichor:.

I'm curious why you feel so bad for the men when the woman and children are being murdered and brutalized as well. It's kind of a weird statement to pick and choose who you feel bad for.

The men are required to stay and fight and so have died in greater numbers. I know women want to feel that their contributions have been equal, but often they just aren't.

Why isnt it controversial for people to say they especially feel bad for women in other contexts? This is why feminism is toxic. It isn't really about equality.

Originally Posted by Proud90sKid

The men are required to stay and fight and so have died in greater numbers. I know women want to feel that their contributions have been equal, but often they just aren't.

Why isnt it controversial for people to say they especially feel bad for women in other contexts? This is why feminism is toxic. It isn't really about equality.

LOL. Feminism saves lives and prevents incel and the like from wreaking havoc on the world. Woman contribute and we are learning about war crimes that are going on. It is weird to see how much you hate woman. It's kind of uncomfortable that this hatred is being spewed so openly on this site.

[MWF]

Originally Posted by Proud90sKid

The men are required to stay and fight and so have died in greater numbers. I know women want to feel that their contributions have been equal, but often they just aren't.

Why isnt it controversial for people to say they especially feel bad for women in other contexts? This is why feminism is toxic. It isn't really about equality.

Dude, we're talking about war. Actual war, as opposed to culture war.
Context...

[Dawn.]

Just a reminder that we are discussing the topic at hand and not letting context be misconstrued.

[Proud90sKid]

Originally Posted by MWF

Dude, we're talking about war. Actual war, as opposed to culture war.
Context...

Yeah and combat is usually actually fought mostly by men. Thats the reason women dont have to sign up for selective service in case of possible draft in the US. Most combat is fought by male. Most of the people defending Ukraine are male. Women focus on the female aspect of issue all the time and nobody cares. I made a passing comment about males in ukraine and people had a fit.

[Proud90sKid]

Originally Posted by .:Vellichor:.

LOL. Feminism saves lives and prevents incel and the like from wreaking havoc on the world. Woman contribute and we are learning about war crimes that are going on. It is weird to see how much you hate woman. It's kind of uncomfortable that this hatred is being spewed so openly on this site.

So we have to have the inequity of feminism to prevent havoc? The world was fine before feminism.
Women dont get drafted and dont usually have combat. Im not sure if they contribute the same way at all in this context.

Women have historically contributed to less than half of history. But that’s only an issue if you make the unfound assumption that women haven’t merely just contributed less than half the value. Historically it was men that died in battles and that is mostly still true today.

[Proud90sKid]

Originally Posted by Dawn.

Just a reminder that we are discussing the topic at hand and not letting context be misconstrued.

Thanks. People were really taking my sympathetic comment and spinning it to mean something it wasnt.

Originally Posted by Dawn.

Just a reminder that we are discussing the topic at hand and not letting context be misconstrued.

Context isn't being misconstrued. Calling out someone who is commenting harmful views is necessary. We don't cater to that type of behavior here on the site. His comment is directly related to the topic at hand as well.

Originally Posted by Proud90sKid

So we have to have the inequity of feminism to prevent havoc? The world was fine before feminism.
Women dont get drafted and dont usually have combat. Im not sure if they contribute the same way at all in this context.

Women have historically contributed to less than half of history. But that’s only an issue if you make the unfound assumption that women haven’t merely just contributed less than half the value. Historically it was men that died in battles and that is mostly still true today.

.

I'm sorry but the world wasn't fine before feminism. Woman were owned by their husbands and had no right. You are posting hateful and derogatory comments and it's reflecting terribly on TH.

Historically speaking, women were deemed too fragile or weak to join the front lines to defend their lands. Instead, they stayed at home and supported the community, feeding the needy, helping other women and children without their husband and father, and even served in political roles (depending on time in history and civilization, of course) so they damn well contributed in times of war.

I agree with Vellichoir that your words are painting TeenHelp in a bad light. This is a website meant to support individuals from all around the world — despite their sex, gender identity, religion, ethnic or racial minority, disability or neurodivergences, and so on forth... by this we mean those who have been marginalized and put down by others throughout the majority of history.

It's 2022 and the people of Ukraine damn well know this. I applaud the women in that country still standing strong and giving updates to concerned folks overseas. Do I wish they'd get the hell out of there and to safety? Hell, yeah! But they're at the front lines of something significant, something that will have a lost-lasting effect on human history.

Originally Posted by Proud90sKid

Thanks. People were really taking my sympathetic comment and spinning it to mean something it wasnt.

In your mind, you might have been "sympathetic" but you also singled out the men. What we're trying to challenge about that is women and children are being affected by this as well. Women and children are have been treated, both historically and in the present, horrifically by the Russians. The only man I think that is doing anything respectable in the name of Ukraine is President Zelensky. I respect that he, unlike the cowardly president of Afghanistan, did not flee Ukraine when Putin invaded his land.

[Everglow.]

Originally Posted by Proud90sKid

So we have to have the inequity of feminism to prevent havoc? The world was fine before feminism.
Women dont get drafted and dont usually have combat. Im not sure if they contribute the same way at all in this context.

Women have historically contributed to less than half of history. But that’s only an issue if you make the unfound assumption that women haven’t merely just contributed less than half the value. Historically it was men that died in battles and that is mostly still true today.

The world was never fine before feminism to females. It was fine for men because it benefitted them. Women might not have 'contributed' as much to history, but legally women weren't allowed to work, or publish papers, or enlist in the army at all until fairly recently. Feminism isn't toxic, it's literally the reason I'm allowed to work, vote, and exist as a legally recognised human without being married to a man.

--

On the topic of the war though, I found out that as part of my job, I'm going to be responding to calls and queries for families hosting Ukrainian refugees in their homes in my local area from Monday. It's only a small way to help but I'm glad my work has decided to take on this role, especially since I don't have space in my home to put a Ukrainian refugee up.

That's great, Hollie! I'm glad you work with an organization that is supporting Ukrainian refuges.

[MWF]

Originally Posted by Proud90sKid

Yeah and combat is usually actually fought mostly by men. Thats the reason women dont have to sign up for selective service in case of possible draft in the US. Most combat is fought by male. Most of the people defending Ukraine are male. Women focus on the female aspect of issue all the time and nobody cares. I made a passing comment about males in ukraine and people had a fit.

I actually wouldn't have a problem if the draft included women, although considerations would have to be made if a couple has kids and are both drafted. If a situation is dire enough that a country needs to use a draft, I dont think it makes sense to limit yourself.
The problem here is you trying to make cheap political points over a horrible situation. There are millions of refugees, half the children in Ukraine are displaced, the country is being bombed to hell and everyone there is suffering, but yeah, let's derail that conversation to talk about feminism.

[Dawn.]

Originally Posted by Proud90sKid

So we have to have the inequity of feminism to prevent havoc? The world was fine before feminism.
Women dont get drafted and dont usually have combat. Im not sure if they contribute the same way at all in this context.

Women have historically contributed to less than half of history. But that’s only an issue if you make the unfound assumption that women haven’t merely just contributed less than half the value. Historically it was men that died in battles and that is mostly still true today.

Women have contributed a lot to history then what a lot of people think. Marie Curie for example conducted pioneering research on radioactivity. She was the first woman to win a Nobel Prize, the first person and the only woman to win the Nobel Prize twice, and the only person to win the Nobel Prize in two scientific fields.

It's men that think they are significantly better then women when it fact, there are so many things that cannot happen without a woman.

[Proud90sKid]

Originally Posted by MWF

I actually wouldn't have a problem if the draft included women, although considerations would have to be made if a couple has kids and are both drafted. If a situation is dire enough that a country needs to use a draft, I dont think it makes sense to limit yourself.
The problem here is you trying to make cheap political points over a horrible situation. There are millions of refugees, half the children in Ukraine are displaced, the country is being bombed to hell and everyone there is suffering, but yeah, let's derail that conversation to talk about feminism.

I didn't derail. I just said I felt especially bad for the men. Feminists derailed it because apparently it is a crime against humanity to simply express more sympathy for men on anything. I mean we have so many women only stuff, so many articles about "women affected by tragedy xyz" and completely ignoring men. But make half a sentence about men and somehow that is abhorrent.