Presidential Election.

[Dawn.]

Originally Posted by cynefin

Hi all,

I know 2020 has been a very difficult year for so many people and things can quickly become heated. I wanted to post a reminder to be respectful to others at all times. Posting guidelines can be found in TeenHelp's Code of Conduct.

TeenHelp is a place where opinions can be shared yet should be respected. It is important to respect the views of others even if you do not agree with them. Disagreements come up often and this is the perfect place to practice how you cope with them. If you ever need help on deciding whether to post something please feel free to ask. Something that may help when you're considering what to say is to think about how it would make you feel if someone said the same thing to you. If you would feel hurt, it probably means that you should not post.

It might help to remember that our opinions are just that: opinions. They aren't necessarily true or false, but are our own thoughts. Stating this (e.g. "I feel", "In my opinion", or "I think") could lower some tension that has been felt.

If you become frustrated, consider taking a step back and walking away for a while. Maybe go outside and get some fresh air, take a few deep breaths, or spend time with a pet. We're all human and we all deserve to be treated with kindness. If you're having difficulty being kind, take a step back and practice some self-care before returning.

As cynefin correctly stated, the aim of this post was to not insult one another but to kindly post who you voted for and why. Politics will always create mixed emotions but we must refrain from hurting one another, especially during these times.

Originally Posted by Amaranthus

I agree with Cassie. Let's stop this now.

I disagree with your interpretation of identity politics. As someone who has seen it firsthand in her own community, some of it is a little off the wall and really is divisive. If we want people to change their hearts and minds, we must do it in a way that makes people want to listen, and clearly this isn't the way to do it; if it were, the other half of the country would have voted as you wanted them to. The truth is that both have created this toxic political climate and both sides must now own it. People like AOC are also beginning to sound quite authoritarian with her threats of making lists and prevent them from ever being employed again.

We are all humans with our own moral failings. If we want to help others recognize theirs, we must first grapple with our own - and then we must lead with kindness and compassion. We can try and guide people where we feel they're wrong, but ultimately hitting them over the head with things repeatedly with only drives them away. We need to soften our approach. I know a lot of people don't like that, but it's human nature to become defensive when we feel we are being attacked. I can see you have very strong moral convictions, which is an admirable thing; just be careful not to become what you hate in the process.

We have to listen to people and be open to understanding why they vote the way that they do. Biden talked a lot about unity and giving each other the benefit of the doubt tonight; let's try to live up to that.

HI,

Yes, I am gonna stop now but I won't stop calling out racism, hate, bigotry and all that. Sadly, that means calling out the people that chose to vote for Trump and calling out terms used such as identity politics.

I have a lot of issues with the democratic party which I've shared on my personal page but that is a deflection from the real issue which is Trump and his mysogyny, racism, divisiveness and hate. I cannot sit Ideally by and condone or coddle people that chose to ignore that and vote.

Like I said, sitting Idly by would be as bad as the Germans who ignored Hitler or the whites who ignored the atrocities of slavery and the Civil rights movement. I cannot do that.

You are pointing out AOC, which seems like another deflection, however, you seem to be ignoring the issues with Trump. He separated children from their parents and 545 cannot be placed with their parents. It has come out that there have likely been forced eugenics. Trump created concentration camps and he is still being defended. I cannot, in good conscience, he quiet.

Sometimes the truth is difficult to hear. I know that personally because I had a friend call me out on a micro aggression I was committing. We talked about it, I saw his point, I apologized.

I cannot, in good conscience, be silent in the face of oppression, racism, hate, bigotry. I would be just as culpable in it if I was.

Originally Posted by Flight.

As cynefin correctly stated, the aim of this post was to not insult one another but to kindly post who you voted for and why. Politics will always create mixed emotions but we must refrain from hurting one another, especially during these times.

Hi,

I'm just gonna point out that no one is insulting anyone. However, I am pointing out that there was passive racism in the choice to vote for Trump. In order to get things to change we have to call out the blatant or passive racism.

To be silent in the face of racism is still racism and I won't be silent. I will not be culpable in the racist system that led to Trump. It is not something I can do. I have not done it in my personal life and I cannot do it here.

I was not rude or aggressive in my approach but I did call out the passive racism because it's a necessity in order for the USA to move forward.

[Starseeker]

I'm from Europe but attentively following US politics. Joe Biden wouldn't be my ideal candidate but he's the lesser of two evils. I'd never vote for Trump, that's for sure. He's a madman who's tarnished the international image of the US. I'm not saying that to insult anybody who votes for him (everyone has a right to make their own decision), but this is what I truly think of him.

[MWF]

I think both parties are in a weird spot now. For the Democrats, there is a split between centrists and progressives. The centrist wing's blaming the progressive wing for the centrists losing their seats, and you have the progressive wing basically saying that those candidates didn't support their policies anyway, so its the centrists own fault (I agree with this). I would be absolutely terrified of getting crushed by the Republicans in 2022 and 2024 (still am), but the Republicans will be fractured too. It'll be split between the Mitt Romney types in the government who just want to politely give more power to the wealthy and the cult of personality around Donald Trump. Its gonna be interesting seeing how this plays out going forward. If Republican voters lose faith in voting as a result of Donald Trump losing, will they still come out to vote? How many of them only came out because of Donald Trump? Its gonna be interesting and kinda terrifying to see how this plays out.
This country has way too many giant issues to deal with. If Biden and the rest of the centrists just sit on their hands and compromise on awful ideas, I'm really worried the country will just continue to fall apart. I've never been less excited over a win.

I consider myself a centrist, leaning towards the Left or Right on varying topics. When the candidates were first announced a few years ago, I had my eyes on two of them: one from the Republican Party — who was not Donald Trump — and another from the Democratic Party and, up until recent months, was the number one pick for Biden's VP.

The one from the Republican Party has long-time ties to my state and I don't recall his tenure in office back during the 1990s, but my parents supported him. They're Republicans and, I think, had he won the Primaries over Trump, they would have voted for him. I probably would have too, as shocking as that may sound. This particular candidate was very progressive for a Republican and there were issues — again, I don't think anyone can agree 100% with any politician, no matter what party they're aligned with — that I agreed upon with him.

Of course, that all depended on my Democratic candidate winning the Primaries as well. For that election, which was held in my state near the end of last winter, I voted for her but she had withdrawn literally days before; so my vote, and everyone who voted for her, had been nullified. I was out of state, so I had to do an absentee ballot; had I not done that, I would have voted for another candidate who, also, has close ties to my state. Sadly, she was pressured into dropping out as Biden's VP pick in the early summer weeks; so I was left with no choice but to make a "settle for Biden" sort of vote.

I don't like Biden or Senator Kamala Harris, but it is what it is. I just hope that they can repair the damage caused by Trump and his followers in the past four years, put America back together again, and we can have better candidates for the 2024 elections.

Originally Posted by MWF

I think both parties are in a weird spot now. For the Democrats, there is a split between centrists and progressives. The centrist wing's blaming the progressive wing for the centrists losing their seats, and you have the progressive wing basically saying that those candidates didn't support their policies anyway, so its the centrists own fault (I agree with this). I would be absolutely terrified of getting crushed by the Republicans in 2022 and 2024 (still am), but the Republicans will be fractured too. It'll be split between the Mitt Romney types in the government who just want to politely give more power to the wealthy and the cult of personality around Donald Trump. Its gonna be interesting seeing how this plays out going forward. If Republican voters lose faith in voting as a result of Donald Trump losing, will they still come out to vote? How many of them only came out because of Donald Trump? Its gonna be interesting and kinda terrifying to see how this plays out.
This country has way too many giant issues to deal with. If Biden and the rest of the centrists just sit on their hands and compromise on awful ideas, I'm really worried the country will just continue to fall apart. I've never been less excited over a win.

It'll be interesting to see if Biiden can actually unify the country. Part of unifying is going to mean looking at his own party. It'll be interesting to see how he will work to bridge the gap between centrist dems and progressives. I actually just talked about this on my facebook page and one of my centrist dem friends tried to, initially, place most the blame on AOC (my article pertained to her stating she might leave politics due to the hostility) and then I called him on that and he back pedaled and said we need centrist dems for the swing/red states.



What I find most telling is that the Dems who back M4A won re-election (even in swing states) the Dems who did not were not re-elected. I read a quote that Tlaib made basically saying that it seemed like centrist dems are asking her and the progressives to stop working on implementing policies that would help black people.



I hope that Biden has learned from Trumps presidency and he will take the necessary steps to unify the country and his party. My hope is that he will get the centrist dems to talk more openly with progressives about the policy changes and way to implement those changes. Without the senate (two run offs in Georgia though) we cannot implement progressive policies but they can work together to come up with a strategy to gain more votes and then get to a place where they can start implementing those polices.

[PSY]

Hello, everyone!

Seeing as discussion around the presidential election will probably carry on for some time, I wanted to post a second reminder to everyone who views this thread and continues to participate.

I realize this is a tense election, and people of all political affiliations are anxious about what's to come; however, it is not acceptable to let that anxiety lead to disrespectful, insulting, or aggressive behavior toward other members. One of our Staff members has already cited our Code of Conduct, which outlines TeenHelp's "Golden Rule" (as I like to call it):

All users should be treated with respect at all times, regardless of any negative feelings you hold towards them or whether or not provocation occurred. Hateful descriptions or images will not be tolerated anywhere on TeenHelp, and neither will insulting or aggressive behaviour towards anyone. All users should help to maintain the positive environment of TeenHelp.

Before posting, please reflect on your choice of words and ask yourself if what you are about to say is in line with what we promote as a community.

Our Mission Statement aims to provide "a safe place for all young people to gather, share, explore and grow both as individuals and together." When we do not discuss differences in a respectful manner, we do not create an environment that allows for individuals to explore those differences in a constructive manner, and we may inadvertently drive people away from this community when they desperately need it for support.

Our Mission Statement also aims "to raise awareness of issues faced by young people and to help and encourage them to address those issues locally, nationally and/or internationally." As many members have noted in this thread, this has not felt like a typical election. The United States has been grappling with significant systemic issues in the midst of this election, and these issues are absolutely impacting members of this community; however, there will be disagreement around how some of these issues are defined, how they should be addressed, etc. Again, I urge everyone to return to TeenHelp's "Golden Rule" before posting comments that are designed to raise awareness of these issues. Some of these issues may require their own separate thread, as we want to make sure this particular discussion (the presidential election) stays on topic.

Again from the Mission Statement, we want to "promote tolerance and understanding between all people." That can be a tough one to wrap our heads around, so one thing I would like to encourage everyone to do is avoid overgeneralizations. Not all people of one political affiliation are the same. Not all people who voted for one candidate over the other are the same. Our "rational brain" tells us this is true, and yet our "emotional brain" can get the better of us, making it easy to overgeneralize and therefore strip individuals of their unique identities. When we no longer seek to understand who the individuals of this community are... when we dehumanize or demonize... we not only hurt those individuals, but hurt the TeenHelp community as a whole. We all have to do our part to maintain the safety of this community, and we can do that by choosing our words more carefully, or disengaging from debate for a period of time if we're unable to do so.

As of right now, over 75 million people have voted for Biden, and over 70 million people have voted for Trump. I realize the votes are still being counted, but this reminds us that when we talk to people within this community, there's a good chance we'll have disagreements about issues that are important to us. I know this is the Current Events and Debates forum, but keep in mind the description for this forum states we're here for FRIENDLY debates. Let's make sure we're always seeing beyond politics and remembering that we came to this community for the same reason: to receive support, and to give support in return. If we aren't doing that, then we're not maintaining the safe haven TeenHelp was designed to be over 20 years ago.

[MWF]

Originally Posted by .:Bibliophile:.

It'll be interesting to see if Biiden can actually unify the country. Part of unifying is going to mean looking at his own party. It'll be interesting to see how he will work to bridge the gap between centrist dems and progressives. I actually just talked about this on my facebook page and one of my centrist dem friends tried to, initially, place most the blame on AOC (my article pertained to her stating she might leave politics due to the hostility) and then I called him on that and he back pedaled and said we need centrist dems for the swing/red states.



What I find most telling is that the Dems who back M4A won re-election (even in swing states) the Dems who did not were not re-elected. I read a quote that Tlaib made basically saying that it seemed like centrist dems are asking her and the progressives to stop working on implementing policies that would help black people.



I hope that Biden has learned from Trumps presidency and he will take the necessary steps to unify the country and his party. My hope is that he will get the centrist dems to talk more openly with progressives about the policy changes and way to implement those changes. Without the senate (two run offs in Georgia though) we cannot implement progressive policies but they can work together to come up with a strategy to gain more votes and then get to a place where they can start implementing those polices.

What I find aggravating about that debate is that Biden is a centrist who openly disavows BLM's policies and M4A. If he had won in a landslide, the centrists would've said it was because of his centrism. They were gonna disavow the left no matter what.

I dont think Biden will unify the country. I think there's a threshold for American unity thats about 60%, maybe 65%. There's so little trust in government that a lot of people in the right-wing conspiracy bubble (like QAnon) are just living on another planet. They'll never like Biden no matter what.
Its crazy to think about how presidents like Eisenhower and Kennedy could have consistent polling in the 60s and 70s- which is actually great, but it does show that some people in the opposite party just aren't swayable at all. Obama started his first term at 59% and slowly declined over time. If Biden genuinely improves peoples' lives (by listening to the Squad and Bernie on policy), I think he'll approach 60% approval, and thats the best I'll hope for in terms of national unity.
For reference, Trumps approval ranged from 36-46%. I guess that makes sense considering he lost the popular vote twice.

[Proud90sKid]

Originally Posted by .:Bibliophile:.

Hi,

I'm just gonna point out that no one is insulting anyone. However, I am pointing out that there was passive racism in the choice to vote for Trump. In order to get things to change we have to call out the blatant or passive racism.

To be silent in the face of racism is still racism and I won't be silent. I will not be culpable in the racist system that led to Trump. It is not something I can do. I have not done it in my personal life and I cannot do it here.

I was not rude or aggressive in my approach but I did call out the passive racism because it's a necessity in order for the USA to move forward.

Lol you are assuming the only issue at hand here is racism. Especially since Trump has (weirdly) never made any overtly racist comments despite your insistence to the contrary.

Originally Posted by Proud90sKid

Lol you are assuming the only issue at hand here is racism. Especially since Trump has (weirdly) never made any overtly racist comments despite your insistence to the contrary.

No, racism was not the only issue. There are numerous problems with Trumps last four years; issues that I am still grappling with and trying to understand.

What I can say is that there was passive racism involved in Trumps presidency. As I look back on the people in my life who have voted for Trump, I see that there were some people who were overtly racist and some who were not. I see people who I know are good people but hold views that do need to change. Looking back over the presidency and the current election I am realizing a number of different things and what it leaves me with is "How can I address the systemic racism that is ingrained within the USA while also trying to be objective?"

So, that is what I am doing. I am trying to figure out how I can address the systemic racism that exists within the United States while also trying to remain objective; without objectivity I am unsure if I can make a difference. Right now, I am still grappling with and trying to understand Trumps presidency. I haven't quite gotten there. Right now I am struggling with being objective enough to explain the issues with Trumps presidency while also trying to remain objective.

There are numerous articles I could supply to people pertaining to Trumps presidency and the divisiveness. There are plenty of books I can suggest (some I have read and some I have not) that address the greater scope of systemic racism.

Wrapping my head around it all is difficult and I am trying to do that right now. I am trying to figure out if there is a way I can provide knowledge that can lead to change or if it is hopeless. It seems quite hopeless and there are a number of reasons for that hopelessness.

What I find aggravating about that debate is that Biden is a centrist who openly disavows BLM's policies and M4A. If he had won in a landslide, the centrists would've said it was because of his centrism. They were gonna disavow the left no matter what.

I dont think Biden will unify the country. I think there's a threshold for American unity thats about 60%, maybe 65%. There's so little trust in government that a lot of people in the right-wing conspiracy bubble (like QAnon) are just living on another planet. They'll never like Biden no matter what.
Its crazy to think about how presidents like Eisenhower and Kennedy could have consistent polling in the 60s and 70s- which is actually great, but it does show that some people in the opposite party just aren't swayable at all. Obama started his first term at 59% and slowly declined over time. If Biden genuinely improves peoples' lives (by listening to the Squad and Bernie on policy), I think he'll approach 60% approval, and thats the best I'll hope for in terms of national unity.
For reference, Trumps approval ranged from 36-46%. I guess that makes sense considering he lost the popular vote twice.

I have family and friends that are bashing the left and saying we need centrists more than we need progressives. I disagree. I think we need both. I know there are progressives who disagree with me on that but I think that progressives are gaining traction with the younger generation and if the centrists don't embrace some progressive policies than I could see them losing in a landslide in 2022 and 2024.

I asked my friends "How can any party, Dems or Republicans, go right back to what they were doing pre-Trump and not expect the same results in 2022 and 2024." I was truly hoping that both parties would walk away from this having learned something but it seems like the Dems are just as hesitant to change. This actually leaves me thinking that things aren't going to change.

I think that people came together in the fight to get Trump out of office. I do not think there were a ton of people my age and younger, who voted for Biden because they believed he was going to try and work on implementing policies that benefit them. I have been asking my centrist friends and family "What cause can we all come together on in 2022 and 2024? Trump won't be in office so what's gonna invigorate the younger generation into voting? It is likely that many of the Republicans who voted for Biden will not vote for the next Dem candidate." They never answer.


We cannot see change until both sides work on changing their views and working together. It'll be interesting to see what Biden does in the next four years and it will be interesting to see how voting goes in 2022.

My candidate — who I mentioned in my latest post in this thread — was also a Democrat and had more Conservative views. I think this is mainly why people gave her such a hard time after everything that happened; instead of focusing on what she was trying to do in the modern day — ie, in 2020 with her campaign and vying to be teamed with Biden as VP, while not having any other roles she had to focus on — instead they focused on her past and shortcomings.

FYI, all politicians have shortcomings. Everyone has messed up in one way or another at some point in their lives; whether that's during their youth, adolescence, young adulthood, or through their career. I do not think that should have forced her, or anyone for that matter, to step down from something that could have profoundly not only changed their lives but the lives of millions in America.

That's my salty rant for the day. Carry on.

[hocus pocus]

I know this is a little off topic, but did any of you see really long voting lines? I actually went twice. Once in the early afternoon and once in the early evening. Both times, the lines were wrapped around the building but the second time the line was around the building and through the parking lot. My chronic illness has been flaring so I was unable to wait in line.

I've heard people say they waited in line for an hour and a half to two hours. One person I know waited ten minutes (the second time she went to vote) and the other waited only twenty.

I think part of it was because everything needed to be sanitized after each voter.

[Just Peachy.]

Originally Posted by cynefin

I know this is a little off topic, but did any of you see really long voting lines? I actually went twice. Once in the early afternoon and once in the early evening. Both times, the lines were wrapped around the building but the second time the line was around the building and through the parking lot. My chronic illness has been flaring so I was unable to wait in line.

I've heard people say they waited in line for an hour and a half to two hours. One person I know waited ten minutes (the second time she went to vote) and the other waited only twenty.

I think part of it was because everything needed to be sanitized after each voter.

Yeah, I heard about that. I mailed my ballot in, so I didn't have to wait. But my husband dropped off his, and there was ZERO line. Although, he filled it out beforehand.

[Dawn.]

Am I correct in saying Joe Biden is set to become the next President? If so, what are your thoughts on this?

[Proud90sKid]

Originally Posted by Flight.

Am I correct in saying Joe Biden is set to become the next President? If so, what are your thoughts on this?

You are correct.

My personal opinion is that I would rather Trump had won.

[Dawn.]

Originally Posted by Proud90sKid

You are correct.

My personal opinion is that I would rather Trump had won.

I'm not wanting an argument but I'm genuinely curious. How come you wanted Trump to win?

[Proud90sKid]

Originally Posted by Flight.

I'm not wanting an argument but I'm genuinely curious. How come you wanted Trump to win?

My state relies heavily on hospitality industry, tourism, indoor dining, and bars. And my town is filled with mostly small businesses. Our unemployment rate became amongst the highest most the nation in the last shutdown ... yet dems claim we didn’t shutdown enough and that we need to shutter all the industries that my state relies on. Honestly : fuck that.

I don’t agree that we should do that- especially as I will be looking for a job next spring...

If anything I have become more of a Trump supporter during the pandemic. Not because Trump necessarily did a good job (he didn’t), but because he is the less likely candidate to destroy jobs when I desperately need one.

I already had to go to school for another year because while I could have left last year, the shutdown ruined my job prospects. My mental health has also gotten worse as a result of the social distancing measures. I cannot go for another year to receive money as an instructor and therefor cannot agree to another shutdown...It isn’t selfish- people need money to eat and my life is just as important as those with COVID

[MWF]

Originally Posted by Proud90sKid

My state relies heavily on hospitality industry, tourism, indoor dining, and bars. And my town is filled with mostly small businesses. Our unemployment rate became amongst the highest most the nation in the last shutdown ... yet dems claim we didn’t shutdown enough and that we need to shutter all the industries that my state relies on. Honestly : fuck that.

I don’t agree that we should do that- especially as I will be looking for a job next spring...

If anything I have become more of a Trump supporter during the pandemic. Not because Trump necessarily did a good job (he didn’t), but because he is the less likely candidate to destroy jobs when I desperately need one.

I already had to go to school for another year because while I could have left last year, the shutdown ruined my job prospects. My mental health has also gotten worse as a result of the social distancing measures. I cannot go for another year to receive money as an instructor and therefor cannot agree to another shutdown...It isn’t selfish- people need money to eat and my life is just as important as those with COVID

Given that hospitality and tourism is your states main industry, dont you think it would be equally or more problematic if those restaurants and hotels became covid hotspots and then shut down anyway? People dont want to eat or sleep at a disease hotspot. Thats why the cruise line industry collapsed.
I totally get that not working sucks- I've been out of work since April. But I also see countries around the world with higher population density (Like Japan, South Korea) handling this pandemic far better than we are without significant job losses. Our government should definitely be doing far more to help people than just giving them $1200 and almost nothing else. The problem is, if we leave everything open, the hospital infrastructure will be completely overrun and the government won't have much choice but to close areas down to combat it. A country where hospitals are leaving dead people in refrigerated trucks is pretty close to a failed state.
Thats not even to mention the long-term economic effects of Covid- we're going to be paying for this disease long after its gone.

[Dawn.]

A lot of industries have suffered because of the pandemic and I understand it is extremely hard to find a job in this current climate.