TeenHelp - Apple's Reputation is on a rapid Decline

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Tomb	July 13th 2010 03:28 AM

Apple's Reputation is on a rapid Decline

As Apple is growing, the company is under the microscope. Facing tremendous amount of positive and negative attention.

Apples iphone 4 is a huge commercial success. It have one praise from alot of critics. However, the phone is heavily flawed. By the manufacturer.... design and built quality.

In terms of manufacturing they use sweat shop labor that had multiple suicide deaths because of the inhuman working environment/operations. The Product design is flawed because of the "wrap around" antenna is negatively affected by holding it with your left hand... The white version is delayed because of "quality" control... while some of the black models have screen issues... in which the screens appear to be yellowish...

http://www.pcworld.com/article/16882...se_police.html

"Design Flaw in iPhone 4, Testers Say"
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/13/te...html?src=busln

http://gizmodo.com/5571986/apple-sup...-manufacturing

Fraud is becoming more and more visible on the Apple APP store. With multiple hackers...
"Reports: iTunes accounts, App Store hacked"
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-20009658-37.html

And Consumer Reports "Do Not Recommend" warning to their readers. In fact, earlier this year Consumer Report's "Do not buy" recommendation have made Toyota to temporarily stop producing their Lexus GX luxury SUV. Apple Forum Posters have discussed the new consumer report recommendation... which was later deleted and removed from the Apple website..

"Biz Break: Apple's iPhone 4: Consumer Reports 'can't recommend' it"
http://www.siliconvalley.com/60secon...ak/ci_15498591

"Apple deleting mentions of Consumer Reports' iPhone 4 piece on forums, can't delete your thoughts"
http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/12/a...-4-piece-on-f/

Shouldnt Apple reduce their profits by paying their workers better? And to build better high quality products? And Not block freedom of speech?

Discuss.

Brandon

July 13th 2010 06:58 AM

Re: Apple's Reputation is on a rapid Decline

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomb (Post 428645)

Shouldnt Apple reduce their profits by paying their workers better? And to build better high quality products? And Not block freedom of speech?

Discuss.

I don't see how you could possibly answer "no" to any of those questions. I honestly believe that the only reason why Apple is successful is because they're popular. They push out these products like a pregnant woman on steroids. Once the 3g comes out, they're already working on the 4g. I don't think they ever stop to improve a product. But who am I to say? I don't even own one Apple product. I don't think they should necessarily pay their workers better, I think they should improve the working conditions. Ultimately, spend some money on your employees for God's sake. If you can't improve the condition, at least give them more incentive to work in harsh conditions at least. And absolutely, build better products. Eventually when you build flawed designs and such, people start catching on that you're trying too hard. At least Microsoft can pretend that they give a shit about the consumers, even if they too make flawed designs every once in a while.

forfrosne

July 13th 2010 10:53 AM

Re: Apple's Reputation is on a rapid Decline

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandon (Post 428811)

Once the 3g comes out, they're already working on the 4g. I don't think they ever stop to improve a product.

The '4g' would, by nature, be an improvement over the 3g, so actually they do improve it in a way. Not to mention the numerous software updates and bug fixes.

Before I say this, I'm not an Apple fanboy. I have 4 PC's, 1 MacBook and an iPod Touch. Oh and an Xbox 360 (MS).

The reason apple is suffering such bad publicity for this is that up till now they've done everything perfectly. They've always created brilliantly designed products, every single year. Unfortunately, the moment they slip up, because of this history, it's much bigger than it should be. You can actually reproduce the Signal problem on a number of smartphones on the market today (Nokia, Sony Ericsson..) but because they're known for pushing out 30 phones every year, and 28 suck; it doesn't matter.

However, I do agree with the workers bit. They should improve the conditions. Although they're actually not that much worse than many other big companies. It's just that they've got bad publicity because of a few suicides (2 I think).

TigerTank77

July 13th 2010 03:27 PM

Re: Apple's Reputation is on a rapid Decline

Maybe it's because people are realizing they're paying hundreds of dollars more for a shitty label that makes mediocre things?

Union Of V

July 13th 2010 06:12 PM

Re: Apple's Reputation is on a rapid Decline

Indeed.

That's all I can say. Indeed.

L'espoir

July 13th 2010 06:49 PM

Re: Apple's Reputation is on a rapid Decline

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainOnMe (Post 428931)

The '4g' would, by nature, be an improvement over the 3g, so actually they do improve it in a way. Not to mention the numerous software updates and bug fixes.

I think he means that you should improve faults that are there before making the new product with extra features on it. I have to say, I agree with what he is saying

forfrosne

July 13th 2010 10:12 PM

Re: Apple's Reputation is on a rapid Decline

Quote:

Originally Posted by TigerTank77 (Post 429042)

Maybe it's because people are realizing they're paying hundreds of dollars more for a shitty label that makes mediocre things?

Mediocre? :dem:
Windows 7 is worse than Snow Leopard except for gaming, and Mac is slowly catching up with that.
The only competition iOS has is Android, and it's still outselling it by a huge margin.
The iPad is a huge sucess.
The mac suite is slightly overpriced, but also better in many ways than most PC's I've seen.

Although I agree, I hate Apple Tax. $39 for a bumper? Shit off.

It's definitely incorrect to say their products are mediocre. You may not like them, you pay refer others, but they are certainly not mediocre. Although, yes, they should never have had this problem, and they deserve all the stick they're getting.

Brandon

July 13th 2010 10:47 PM

Re: Apple's Reputation is on a rapid Decline

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainOnMe (Post 428931)

The '4g' would, by nature, be an improvement over the 3g, so actually they do improve it in a way. Not to mention the numerous software updates and bug fixes.

What I mean is that you don't see Microsoft coming out with a Xbox 540 when they get complaints about the red ring of death or any of that jazz. They improve the product itself, not make an Xbox 540 for people to buy. When Kunect comes out for the 360, I can bet you that they're going to have problems with it because I believe that the better technology is going to be, the better the risk of having problems. So if Apple continues making 4-5-6-115g phones, they're going to continue having problems. Master the 4g phone, solve those problems and work your way to the 5g. Take a breather for cryin' out loud.

forfrosne

July 13th 2010 10:53 PM

Re: Apple's Reputation is on a rapid Decline

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandon (Post 429390)

[/b]What I mean is that you don't see Microsoft coming out with a Xbox 540 when they get complaints about the red ring of death or any of that jazz. They improve the product itself, not make an Xbox 540 for people to buy. When Kunect comes out for the 360, I can bet you that they're going to have problems with it because I believe that the better technology is going to be, the better the risk of having problems. So if Apple continues making 4-5-6-115g phones, they're going to continue having problems. Master the 4g phone, solve those problems and work your way to the 5g. Take a breather for cryin' out loud.

Ah, I guess I interpreted it slightly wrong. I agree.

Henk	July 14th 2010 10:36 AM

Re: Apple's Reputation is on a rapid Decline

Because of Apple's history it's a really easy target for people who want to bash a company. It's also by far the most innovative and produces amazing products any person who loves to use their computer/phone instead of try to fix it half the time knows that.

Half-truths and lies are very hurtful to corporate images and just really cheap.
Let's do some myth-busting.
- iPhone 4 has no screen issues. The discoloration is due to the special kind of glue (let's call it glue) that attaches the screen. It needs time to harden and will quickly disappear. iPhones have this 'issue' because Apple has to be able to make enough iPhones to be able to sell 1.7 million on the first weekend.

- The App store wasn't hacked, 400 users were stupid enough to fall for a phishing scam. If you're stupid enough to just hand your password over there's no kind of security that can protect against that.

- Consumer Reports also gave the highest marks the iPhone in their smartphone test.

Due to Apple's innovations the world of computing is where it is today. By the way, who again lost the data of the entire Sidekick programme?

TigerTank77

July 14th 2010 12:49 PM

Re: Apple's Reputation is on a rapid Decline

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainOnMe (Post 429356)

Windows 7 is bad if you're a moron who needs his computer to run itself. I love Windows 7 personally. Everything an OS should be.

Mac will never catch up with PC's to gaming. Why? Because advanced Mac hardware is overpriced by Apple, and you can't upgrade individual Macs.

Androids also don't drop calls every 30 seconds.

Compared to other Tablet PC's that have been out since 2000, the iPad is a flashy etch a sketch.

And don't start with that virus BS. If someone wanted to they could brick every mac on the planet in 13 seconds with a super-virus, the problem is no one bother's with such a small market.

/fanboyism

MisplacedDreamer

July 14th 2010 04:03 PM

Re: Apple's Reputation is on a rapid Decline

Well, it's overpriced and if I have software, I really don't want to pay for a new version of it. Backwards compatibility rules, but I don't know if Apple recently started using it since that's where a lot of the flaws from Microsoft came from since they tried to make every program that worked in the past work on the new OS. I used to play Windows 3.11 games on XP.

The Ipods are decent once I got use to them. I received it free so it's not like I paid for it.

My issue is that they cost so much. I don't think 145 dollars for an Ipod Nano would be worth it.

As for sweat shops, well, it's easy for us to bitch about them because we live in a developed country. However, sweat shops can be better than the alternatives such as selling the kids and women for sex or servants where they may still be sexually abused. Eventually the workers will demand better conditions and higher pay. Then the shops will move elsewhere. That's what happened in the USA.

Union Of V

July 14th 2010 05:57 PM

Re: Apple's Reputation is on a rapid Decline

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainOnMe (Post 429356)

Windows 7 is worse than Snow Leopard except for gaming, and Mac is slowly catching up with that.
The only competition iOS has is Android, and it's still outselling it by a huge margin.
[...]
The mac suite is slightly overpriced, but also better in many ways than most PC's I've seen.

Woah hold back a second. What exactly is it that everyone finds bad about Windows 7? When it comes to "just working", Win7 is one of the best OS's I've seen, it's not overly performance-crippling and it's pretty well featured for a €100 piece of software. iOS puts ridiculous and illogical restrictions on what the user can do (it's taken this long to simply flick a switch and allow multitasking? really Appple?) and simply saying you find Macs better does not make it so, unless you back it up with reasons why it is better. If you want to see efficiency, I challenge you to see who gets work done faster - you with your Mac and me with my quick-switching quadruple-virtual-screened linux laptop :p

forfrosne

July 14th 2010 06:36 PM

Re: Apple's Reputation is on a rapid Decline

Quote:

Originally Posted by Union Of V (Post 429980)

I could achieve that setup with my mac, I just choose not to. I could list the reasons why Windows 7 is not as good as Snow Leopard, but it's not the reason for this thread. Another time ;)

forfrosne

July 14th 2010 06:41 PM

Re: Apple's Reputation is on a rapid Decline

Quote:

Originally Posted by TigerTank77 (Post 429823)

Ask yourself why all the designers and musicians use Macs.

All MacBooks, MacBook Pros and Mac Pros can be very easily upgraded. Macbook Air and iMacs are constrained by their designs.

One name: AT&T.

Flashy etch a sketch? The iPad is easily better than most other tablets. What most companies do is produce a brick-width, 1990s-looking screen (which has low sensitivity, every. single. time.) and just put Windows 7 on it. There's no innovation anywhere.

I never started with the virus stuff, but the fact is Windows has far more viruses than Mac. That and PC viruses don't work on Macs. Sure, somebody could create one. But nobody has, which Macs safer.

SonicFan

July 14th 2010 06:52 PM

Re: Apple's Reputation is on a rapid Decline

Quote:

Originally Posted by Union Of V (Post 429980)

Same, Linux runs on my 5 year old laptop without a problem and a virtual desktop sure it handy for storing a background program

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainOnMe (Post 430016)

I could achieve that setup with my mac, I just choose not to. I could list the reasons why Windows 7 is not as good as Snow Leopard, but it's not the reason for this thread. Another time ;)

Macs and Linux are not dissimilar under the hood mainly because they are both based on Unix, they diverted due to licensing, Apple closed their source and created an affront to freedom.

All apple products are horrendously overpriced for what they are.

They are kings of planned obsolescence with a new version coming out and very limited, if any, support for the old product.

Vendor lock in too, if you want an iPod you'd better not want to use anything but iTunes and hence quicktime, both of which are awfully bloated products. Quicktime is possibly the worst video player in existence, even nvlc is better.

The iPad is hilarious, not only is it a fat man's touch but it can only do one thing at once. 200,000 apps, but you can only do one at a time

Plus you can't do anything with their products, anything you purchase is actually hiring and they can take what they like at any time, without recompense.

It's about time people got to the see the truth about Apple and I cannot hide my glee.

It's as the joke goes: "iPad owners: Avoid embarrassment about masturbating in public by putting some porn on your iPad"

Quote:

but the fact is Windows has far more viruses than Mac. That and PC viruses don't work on Macs. Sure, somebody could create one. But nobody has, which Macs safer.

The main reason Windows has more viruses is because it's more popular. Sure the filesystem and multi-user accounts help but it's largely because they're more popular. If you want to be pedantic GNU/Linux has even less viruses so it must be better. Furthermore why are an overwhelming majority of servers Linux-based?

forfrosne

July 14th 2010 07:23 PM

Re: Apple's Reputation is on a rapid Decline

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crush 40 (Post 430024)

Same, Linux runs on my 5 year old laptop without a problem and a virtual desktop sure it handy for storing a background program

Macs and Linux are not dissimilar under the hood mainly because they are both based on Unix, they diverted due to licensing, Apple closed their source and created an affront to freedom.

All apple products are horrendously overpriced for what they are.

They are kings of planned obsolescence with a new version coming out and very limited, if any, support for the old product.

Vendor lock in too, if you want an iPod you'd better not want to use anything but iTunes and hence quicktime, both of which are awfully bloated products. Quicktime is possibly the worst video player in existence, even nvlc is better.

The iPad is hilarious, not only is it a fat man's touch but it can only do one thing at once. 200,000 apps, but you can only do one at a time

Plus you can't do anything with their products, anything you purchase is actually hiring and they can take what they like at any time, without recompense.

It's about time people got to the see the truth about Apple and I cannot hide my glee.

It's as the joke goes: "iPad owners: Avoid embarrassment about masturbating in public by putting some porn on your iPad"

The main reason Windows has more viruses is because it's more popular. Sure the filesystem and multi-user accounts help but it's largely because they're more popular. If you want to be pedantic GNU/Linux has even less viruses so it must be better. Furthermore why are an overwhelming majority of servers Linux-based?

I like quicktime because of the simplicity, and the trim and share features. Doesn't support many file types, so I use Perian (a plugin).

It is getting an exclsive version of iOS4, which CAN multitask, so it shows how much you know.

Servers probably run it because of the many nerdy things you can do with it, and the lack of viruses.

I agree about the price tag. Absolutely ridiculous. Unfortunately, that is the price I am prepared to pay for, IMO, a superior product.

Now, I like WIndows 7. But I find it strange how anyone for any purposes, other than Work which I can honestly say I am in love with Microsoft Office 2010 or gaming, that Windows 7 is superior.

Union Of V

July 14th 2010 07:29 PM

Re: Apple's Reputation is on a rapid Decline

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainOnMe (Post 430016)

I could achieve that setup with my mac, I just choose not to.

No you couldn't, unless Mac's "spaces" has suddenly started implementing screen edges?

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainOnMe (Post 430016)

Ask yourself why all the designers and musicians use Macs.

Many musicians use Macs because the drivers are marginally more stable, and also for Apple Mainstage, however saying mac=creativity is ridiculous considering just how many high-ranked musicians use Windows - sure those live VST rigs that are all the rage amongst keyboard players run a cut-down version of Windows. You do have to take into account that when you're a successful musician, a two grand computer is nothing compared to the twenthy grand console it's sitting next to, but that doesn't mean that the cost of the computer is justified either. As for why so many digital artists use Macs, that I was never quite able to fathom - one thing was sure, none would give me a proper answer...

SonicFan

July 14th 2010 07:57 PM

Re: Apple's Reputation is on a rapid Decline

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainOnMe (Post 430035)

I like quicktime because of the simplicity, and the trim and share features. Doesn't support many file types, so I use Perian (a plugin).

Should you have to install plugins to get a usable experience? Perhaps it has improved since I last had to endure it though. MPlayer is versatile and can be compiled to do whatever you like

Quote:

It is getting an exclsive version of iOS4, which CAN multitask, so it shows how much you know.

I know that what I wrote was in the present tense whereas you're talking in the future tense. The iPad doesn't, at this time, have multitasking. But I'm still suspicious so if I may ask three questions:

1) Is there are release date for it?
2) How much will it cost?
3) Can you choose not to install it?

Quote:

Servers probably run it because of the many nerdy things you can do with it, and the lack of viruses.

:rolleyes: It has nothing to do with it's inherent stability, free updates and ability to change anything you like. Servers need stability more than anything. While macs may be stable their short lifecycle and high expense are not worth it.

Quote:

I agree about the price tag. Absolutely ridiculous. Unfortunately, that is the price I am prepared to pay for, IMO, a superior product.

That will be outdated in twelve months. The relatively futureproof macs are upwards of £2000, not even I can afford that and I work full time.

Quote:

Now, I like WIndows 7. But I find it strange how anyone for any purposes, other than Work which I can honestly say I am in love with Microsoft Office 2010 or gaming, that Windows 7 is superior.

Program compatibility is surely a big one? I've not used windows 7 so I cannot talk much about it. After switching to GNU/Linux over a year ago I cannot fathom why any non-professional would actually pay to have their freedoms restricted. For pretty much every requirement free software does the job

forfrosne

July 14th 2010 09:16 PM

Re: Apple's Reputation is on a rapid Decline

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crush 40 (Post 430065)

Should you have to install plugins to get a usable experience? Perhaps it has improved since I last had to endure it though. MPlayer is versatile and can be compiled to do whatever you like

I know that what I wrote was in the present tense whereas you're talking in the future tense. The iPad doesn't, at this time, have multitasking. But I'm still suspicious so if I may ask three questions:

1) Is there are release date for it?
2) How much will it cost?
3) Can you choose not to install it?

:rolleyes: It has nothing to do with it's inherent stability, free updates and ability to change anything you like. Servers need stability more than anything. While macs may be stable their short lifecycle and high expense are not worth it.

That will be outdated in twelve months. The relatively futureproof macs are upwards of £2000, not even I can afford that and I work full time.

Program compatibility is surely a big one? I've not used windows 7 so I cannot talk much about it. After switching to GNU/Linux over a year ago I cannot fathom why any non-professional would actually pay to have their freedoms restricted. For pretty much every requirement free software does the job

If you haven't seen, used, or know about, Quicktime X, you have no place to talk about it.

My apologies for that, must have misread you. It willl definitely be free, as the iPod/iPhone was free, it'll be optional, as its always worked that way for iOS updates.

Macs have a far higher lifetime. Their hardware is all high quality, and the fact that Apple manafactures it means that they can control what the quality is. And when you think about it, seeing as a Mac normally lasts twice as long as a PC, you actually save money in the long run.

Find me an example where the free version is BETTER than the paid competitor.

SonicFan

July 14th 2010 09:22 PM

Re: Apple's Reputation is on a rapid Decline

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainOnMe (Post 430118)

Hardware wise you can construct your own computer for cheaper. Windows is cheaper and what's more you can reject the licence and put Linux on. If necessary you can upgrade your components with no fear of compatibility.

I do not know about macs but are their parts interchangeable? Like can I put an nvidia card in a mac?

forfrosne

July 14th 2010 09:26 PM

Re: Apple's Reputation is on a rapid Decline

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crush 40 (Post 430123)

Yes you probably could, but there IS the issue of compatability. I've had it numerous times with my, now highly spec'd, Windows 7 desktop.

pretty sure you can change MOST of it. Say with my Macbook:

To change harddrive: Remove battery (twist penny-lock and remove)
Unscrew metal plates from around the inside (4 screws)
Pull harddrive out, push new one in
Change RAM: same, but just use the black clicky things to remove the RAM sticks.

SonicFan

July 14th 2010 09:29 PM

Re: Apple's Reputation is on a rapid Decline

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainOnMe (Post 430128)

Fair enough, so it's essentially paying for inferior hardware with a fancy OS? Or that's the impression I get anyway. Apple products are too expensive, last time I checked it was £25 for a cable from iPod to red/white/yellow RCA leads!

forfrosne

July 14th 2010 09:30 PM

Re: Apple's Reputation is on a rapid Decline

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crush 40 (Post 430130)

Apple products are far too expensive. You are right about the cable unfortunately. THe hardware, however, is not inferior. It's very high quality, and all works perfectly.

You didn't answer my question about free software! :p

SonicFan

July 14th 2010 09:35 PM

Re: Apple's Reputation is on a rapid Decline

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainOnMe (Post 430131)

Ah right, I wasn't sure if you meant hardware or software. I'll admit I know very little about software aside from media lol.

Multimedia: mplayer, ffmpeg, vlc, avidemux, handbrake, amarok, digikam

Internet: firefox, thunderbird, pidgin/adium, deluge

forfrosne

July 14th 2010 09:46 PM

Re: Apple's Reputation is on a rapid Decline

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crush 40 (Post 430135)

Mplayer/ffmpe/vlc don't count, as their competitors are also free. I will hesitantly agree with you on Handbrake, however I would have you look at iRip (google it) which I personally prefer. Amarok is not in competition to a paid app. However, I will presume you're comparing it to iTunes. iTunes has a nicer design, more features, iTunes Store (the killer feature) and full iPod/iPhone/iPad syncing. Digikam.. i have never used, but I'm not quite sure it can beat Photoshop/Lightroom/iPhoto/Aperture.

SonicFan

July 14th 2010 09:52 PM

Re: Apple's Reputation is on a rapid Decline

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainOnMe (Post 430141)

No, it can't compete with photoshop but the latter is professional software really which I discounted. I suppose it comes down to a matter of taste, I find iTunes to be too heavy and prefer CD format as I rip music to flac wherever possible.

iRip doesn't seem too bad but I'm unsure of it's flexibility, it looks like it can only manage an mp4 container, presumably with aac sound but idk which video. It would be the dimensions that would get me, ripping to anything less than 720 is foolish if you want a copy on the computer

forfrosne

July 14th 2010 09:56 PM

Re: Apple's Reputation is on a rapid Decline

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crush 40 (Post 430148)

You're right. It's very simple. You don't quite have the flexibility of Handbrake (I used to use until I found it just too complicated), however it works well with iTunes ;)
You can rip CD's to ALAC in iTunes, which is the same quality as FLAC, which you may not have known.

SonicFan

July 14th 2010 10:03 PM

Re: Apple's Reputation is on a rapid Decline

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainOnMe (Post 430152)

I'll be fair I didn't know that. It can't be that widespread though? I always thought Apple Lossless was most comparable.

Macs aren't bad, but I simply don't agree with Apple's EULA and free software works for me

Anduriel

July 14th 2010 10:21 PM

Re: Apple's Reputation is on a rapid Decline

One of Microsoft's officers has called the iPhone 4 "Apple's Vista". Do you think so as well?
http://www.redmondpie.com/microsoft-...windows-vista/

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