The Economy, College, and the BS You're Fed in HS

[TigerTank77]

So I've been stewing over this for a long time, and I'd like to bring it into open debate.

Basically, I've come to the point where I'm starting to question everything I was told in high-school regarding college as a necessity.

I was drilled in the fact that I HAD to go to a four year school, that I HAD to get a degree from said school, because it was the ONLY WAY to get a job.

Now, I see people graduating from college with degrees in all sorts of shit, only to be told that it's not enough. "You need a Master's to be relevant. You Need a PhD. You need 3 years experience. You need blah blah blah blah." My cousin graduated from Boston University, 3rd in her class, with a Masters in Environmental Engineering, and has been working at Starbucks since her graduation two years ago. She literally JUST got a job that relates to her career field. Meanwhile I'm getting paid to study Criminal Justice at my local community college, something most people would consider "below average", and I'm going into a field with a high demand for workers and an average salary of about $70k starting out. (Law Enforcement)

Now I don't know whether the reason for this is because people are simply going to college of the sake of going to college because they were told they have to, or because they actually have a plan in mind. My mind seems to settle on the former, considering on average people change their majors 4 or five times. It Literally feels like this.

Step 1- Go to College
Step 2- Get degree
Step 3-???
Step 4- Profit!

I mean, I'm not saying I don't believe in higher education, I just don't believe in the method we've been coerced into taking.

I've got more on this but I'll let it flow as the topic goes on. So, yeah, any thoughts?

[Halo345]

For the most part I'd have to say I'd agree. There's a lot of bs going around that you have to go to the BEST school no mater what. Which means just a high tuition and more exspenses to pay after college. So really, do you need a BA/BS in whatever from university of give me $50k+ a year? Not really.

If your going to get a degree in law, medicine or some other fancy ass degree that have being able to say you went to blah blah blah school will help in the application processes and help give you a little more respect in your career field, then don't do it. Like with the OP, if your getting a major in CJ and it's a heck of a lot cheaper to go to blah blah blah school over XXX school (when the quality of the criculum doesn't differ to muchh) then pich the cheaper school. It will help you so much more in the long run.

As far as needing a degree goes, yes I do think you need one now a days if you don't want to be working at Walmart or wawa your whole life. I seriously doubt anyone wants that.
Many good jobs are requiring you to have some type of higher education or military exp., and for promotions it's almost a garuntee you'll need one. But a good thing, most companies arnt saying you need a spacific degree, just a degree, which makes it easier.

As far as work exp, its really not that hard to do. Work 2 summers, there's a year. Become a vol. firefighter. You get spacIfic training, leadership skills and for every year your with them, that's a years worth of working exp. and on top of that, many states have pensions for vol. fire fighters, so after 15/20 years of service, you get like 5-12k a year, which isn't half bad.

Hopefully this all made sense, cause its like 4 here and I haven't been to bad yet

[Heretic]

I dropped out of college after one semester, and the following year I took a short course that allowed me to get a commercial license. I can now enter a job field that's nearly immune to recession and pays about $35K starting out (and can grow to $100K).

I need to turn 21 to make full use of the license, but that's only a few months away, and in the meantime I'm working a job that, although it's not very high paying, is able to cover my expenses and leave me a bit of cash left over.

College is great for people who want specific advanced careers. But for many people, it's best to go directly into the workforce (or take a specified shorter college-like course, like you did, Ben) rather than accumulate mountains of debt for a degree that you MIGHT be able to use.

[Dream]

From a macroeconomics point of view, having a more educated populace helps our country in that it is more competitive for firms to open up and provide good jobs here because of a higher supply of educated labor. It reduces their costs. However, the US has fallen behind in the number of people with bachelors degrees (it used to be number one). Also, for certain fields, the requirements have been raised, as you said, for things like accounting and engineering. You do need a masters to be relevant in those areas.

But also we know that a lot of people end up getting jobs out of college that have don't require a college degree, but they needed the degree to get the job because we live in a credentialist society. If you're a manager at starbucks, would you rather hire someone who managed to get a college degree or someone who didn't?

I've accepted that you need a degree and/or experience (usually both) to be relevant. I am majoring in philosophy with a minor in economics (to fulfill gradschool prerequisites), and maybe I'll do an accelerated program in gradschool. Everyone knows that philosophy by itself is irrelevant/impractical (or entirely relevant, depending on your perspective), but it doesn't make a difference what you study as long as you do the prerequisites for gradschool and are a good student. This is assuming you want to go to gradschool.

I agree that it is a messed up system, but I don't know how to fix it. If you don't want to go to gradschool, then you should choose your area of study carefully. Don't assume that just because your degree is in an area of demand that a bachelors will necessarily get you an entry level position. In some cases it will; in others it wont.

[Dream]

http://www.economist.com/node/16990700

There is an article that sums of the problem from an economic standpoint.

[Kate*]

Thank you, I couldn't agree more, I graduated college in May (granted my degree's in psychology) I got rejected from grad school and can't try again until at least May and now I'm screwed because I'm not even qualified to work at Target and every application I've submitted has either been ignored or rejected. Most places want experience that I never got, or the degree that I'm eventually hoping to get. You would think that with the economy this bad companies would lower their standards a little. I found a job I could actually do, but I couldn't apply because you needed 5 years of experience; I mean COME ON!

High school didn't teach me to go to college, but my parents did, they just expected and basically forced me to go. When I ended up at a 2 year school to start out with my dad pretty much threw a fit until he saw how much money it saved him. They paid for it with no conditions on grades or major and I wanted to go, but it doesn't qualify me to do anything except try to get into grad school aka dig myself deeper into debt and then I can finally do what I planned to do in the first place.

[dr2005]

I agree completely - focusing solely on university education and getting degrees, as both the USA and the UK among others appear to be doing, is leaving a massive gulf in skills which are actually required in the modern workplace. Technically speaking, I'm overqualified for my current job with my qualifications, and having a degree hasn't helped me with a lot of what I have to do now (using the fax machine for instance). Similarly, there are industries CRYING out for new employees who aren't getting them because people aren't being taught the skills they need to do the work. I think it would probably do us all some good to remember what university is meant to be - a place focused on study for study's sake, with some benefits for some professions - rather than making it a must-have for anyone looking to get even a half-decent job. Admittedly in some professions, such as engineering, you're always going to need graduates and rightly so, but that doesn't apply to everything by a long shot.

[NonIndigenous]

I've been overboiling with this mind-wrenching issue since 15 I think. Probably earlier, but I only consciously became aware of it at 15. It's like everyone's set on a rail track from a young age, and almost forced and brainwashed into believing there's no way to be successful other than going through all the schooling, exams, more exams, and more more exams etc. And then spending 10 to 20 years, beating about the bush in an office with bosses breathing down your neck running your life pretty much. Then you're 50 before you realise and wake up thinking "shit, wtf have I achieved". For some people it's enough if they have a family, which keeps them happy, others, like myself need more (unfortunately, I'm like that, need more MORE MOAR!!)

The whole economy is becoming centred around having the right qualification and right piece of paper to show for it, and less around common sense. It's moving towards bureaucracy. It sucks. In another 20 years, people will probably be studying until the age of 30. Don't get me wrong, education is useful, and I'm damn grateful for mine now that I think I've matured enough to appreciate it, but what's the point in going as far as pushing yourself to information overload, if you're hardly even going to put it to good use???

Anyway, I take pride and arrogance in being defiant towards all this BS. The past two years of my life have been a shitpool, hopefully I can get a grip again. Enough of that. lol

I took construction management/engineering for my university degree for the main reason that the knowledge is the most practical to me. It allows me to directly seize control of what will probably be my largest investment and asset in the near future, my house/property. Plus I've always been interested in it, but that actually came second. Any other course... I would have probably felt is a waste of time, even music, despite my ongoing interest in it.

[LimLight]

I feel your pain. I'm in my fourth year of university right now, majoring in the most practical thing ever..... Philosophy! I plan on doing my Masters next year, and then getting my PhD. I realize, though, that after getting my doctorate I will get to spends lots of fun, fun times not getting jobs. It might be off topic, but I hate it how the arts are being so downplayed in the work force today. The government and individual universities are continuously cutting funding for from the arts and it pisses me off.

[TigerTank77]

Originally Posted by aranel05

I feel your pain. I'm in my fourth year of university right now, majoring in the most practical thing ever..... Philosophy! I plan on doing my Masters next year, and then getting my PhD. I realize, though, that after getting my doctorate I will get to spends lots of fun, fun times not getting jobs. It might be off topic, but I hate it how the arts are being so downplayed in the work force today. The government and individual universities are continuously cutting funding for from the arts and it pisses me off.

Well, you have to ask yourself what use a philosophy major is going to have in modern society. Arts are important, they're not going to fix the economy, or boost American productivity. I've always found arts educations to be oddly pyramid schemed.