Rape or Ignorance?

[SayWord]

I have a friend who has encountered a very odd situation. Partner A = Male Partner B = Female

Partner A has never been around the influence of drugs his entire life except one short occasion. He is essentially ignorant to how high one can be with the use of marijuana.

Partner B has recently eaten a couple small brownies mixed with marijuana. Partner A asks Partner B after awhile if they would like to have sex. Partner B accepts.

Partner A does not know how "high" Partner B is and they sex.

I'm wondering if this situation would be rape, or how can you define this situation? Partner A has no idea how high she was and did not know that she was so high that she unknowingly accepted sex.

In all honesty, I know both Partners really well. And Partner A would not knowingly commit the act of rape if he had known that she was "high". But I'm having a hard time trying to categorize this sort of situation.

What are your opinions? From what I looked up on the internet, there are situations where there is drug related rape incidents. But those only relate to incidents where one partner purposely drugs the other and knowingly knows that the other cannot resist...

[Ontheverge]

Argh. That's a difficult one. One thing that does come to mind is that people often say "ignorance is no excuse". It may seem harsh and I know mistakes are easily made in "spur of the moment" situations but further inquiries should have been made by partner A in my opinion.

[Dee Kaur]

What are the recollections of both parties involved? Is the part where the sex was fully consensual clear in both minds? Do both parties feel that it was mutual and although drugs were involved they both knew what they were doing?

Or is there a level of uncertainty on either side?

I don't think morally it can be classed as rape but perhaps legally there are some shades of grey.

I'd ask both parties to sit down and have an open discussion about how they both feel. Clarify events and make sure that both are comfortable with the situation as it stands.

Oh and don't do drugs people because THIS is what happens.

[SayWord]

Originally Posted by Diya

What are the recollections of both parties involved? Is the part where the sex was fully consensual clear in both minds? Do both parties feel that it was mutual and although drugs were involved they both knew what they were doing?

Or is there a level of uncertainty on either side?

I don't think morally it can be classed as rape but perhaps legally there are some shades of grey.

I'd ask both parties to sit down and have an open discussion about how they both feel. Clarify events and make sure that both are comfortable with the situation as it stands.

Oh and don't do drugs people because THIS is what happens.

This incident happened a year and a half ago. So the memory is a bit hazy. Partner A remembers it simply as "I asked after she had a couple brownies with her friends/roomates and she seemed okay"..."I would never have done it if I thought she was way out of it, to be honest I have no experience with drugs to even know how many brownies one would need to eat to be that way out of it..." I understand his side of the story...he was ignorant he didn't purposely tell her to do it, in fact he was against her doing eating the brownies in the first place.

To put the relationship between them into context. They were sexually active partners for a year before the incident. So he didn't purposely drug her to take advantage of her.

Her side of the story is a little different. From what she said when they were actually having intercourse... she had attempted to say stop. But she was I guess high to the point that she couldn't? I've never taken my drugs myself so I'm not sure how one would feel under the influence... After the incident she says that Partner A said something along the lines of "what just happened? Did I just...?"

The problem is Partner A doesn't recall saying any of those things. And he has explained to me on many occasions that when they are having sexual intercourse and Partner B asked him to stop (because it hurt or for whatever reasons) he would comply sober or not.

The year that followed (to this present day) he still doesn't remember saying that last sentence. Or even considered as it being rape. He feels that if he consciously and knowingly took advantage of her because he knew how high she was, then he would accept what he did. But he's really ignorant when it comes to drugs so I agree with what the first reply suggested that maybe he should of inquired more about her "mental state" before engaging in anything along those lines.

I guess he felt it was similar to being under the influence of alcohol, at least for me when I'm "tipsy" I still acknowledge the things I say and I mean what I say every time. But I guess drugs even in small doses can still make a person lose consciousness?

I don't know. But thanks for the suggestions. I've suggested to them that they talk about it. But it's difficult because Partner B is determined to classify the incident as rape. Not because she was to make it a legal problem, but I guess she feels that this is what she needs to do to "get over" the incident? We looked it up together but honestly I can't choose sides as both are my friends. And Partner A feels like there's no defence for him. Whether he acknowledged that she was out of it or not.

There is definitely a lot of grey area. And I agree they need to come together to talk about it. When Partner A spoke to me about how she first approached him about the incident being rape (this was a year later). He was shocked beyond belief that she was taking it to that level. Mainly because when he thought back to that incident he just thought of it as "we had intercourse when you were high"

He's not a arsehole though, he just never thought of the incident as being that way...especially since it was only until a year later that she told him that she was trying to say "no". She did inquire about the incident probably about half a year after the incident first occurred but it was simply "what happened" "I asked you and you said it was okay"... and that was pretty much it. I guess it's something they should of talked to each other about earlier...But I guess it makes sense that after a traumatic event that you would need time to try to patch memories together? It's just a year later is a long time so it's hard to tell what was actually truly said, or how each other felt during the actual incident. Partner A has a very vague memory of how it was, and I'm sure Partner B has a vague memory of how it went as well...

But yeah, it's just hard to be supportive of both sides of the situation. Partner A is a good guy, and would never do anything to purposely hurt someone like that, especially someone he cares about. But Partner B is the "victim" in a sense and this is something she has kept inside away from Partner A for a long time. And I suppose she feels that she needs to say "okay this is how I feel it happened..." so that she can get over the incident. So definitely hard to distinguish a category like this...

But thank you for your inputs...

[Jesus Christ.]

No, from how you described in the opening post it doesn't sound like rape at all, I'm sure it doesn't inhibit decision making as much as alcohol, and having sex whilst drunk isn't rape.
On the other hand the, it does sound like he was taking advantage of her.

[Hale_Bopp]

that is most definetely not (no well in hell) rape. that is definetely not rape. i surely hope none of the parties involved is considering ruining that guys life with a rape charge over something like that. i dont care if she was intoxicated, she still consented. if it was consent made without a clear mind, its still consent, she still chose to smoke it. i wouldnt care if the other person was high unless they were clearly "gone",

that is utter bull**** about what she said about not being able to say stop. COMPLETE BULL****. i feel so sorry for that guy. ive been extremely high on weed and i was completely able to talk. OMG! i really hope that guy (u said he was a nice guy) doesnt go to jail for this i. i mean yea she may be hurt because she might regret it, and its bad that she feels hurt. but if this guy goes to jail he will get raped everyday in prison (and i mean real rape, not this consensual stuff) for the rest of his life.

weed doesnt take away the ability to talk. if she just couldnt say "stop", its not rape, u cant expect everyone to be able to read each others mind. thinking "i want him to stop" is not the same as saying stop. if she said stop and he continued, it would be rape, but she didnt .

if this goes to court, i sure hope im on the jury to save this guy.

i have better judgement when im high on weed than when im even slightly drunk............

im sorry this happened to the girl as well. i hope she feels better and all. but i really hope she doesnt start claiming this is rape (unless there is more to the story). its a regret, but rape is a VERY strong word. rapists are very sick and twisted people who should be locked away for life. and this story does not begin to even halfway do justice to how bad real rape can be.

a regret is a regret, its not rape.

sorry if i offended anyone, but this is my opinion.

EDIT: u dont lose conciousness on weed unless u willingly fall asleep. and unlike when i was drunk: i can vividly remember every time i have been high on weed. i know its bad that she regrets it , but ask yourself: would he deserve to spend life in prison where (since he is young and you said he was a "nice guy") go to prison where he willl suffer true rape by ugly criminals for many years?

rape should not be treated as a traffic offense where there is gray area and there may be disagreement over weather or not your car is parked at exactly the right area. in a traffic ticket case, it may be morally acceptable for their to be disagreements such as : "officer, my speedometer said....." . because in this case their is only a few hundred dollars and license points at stake. rape shouldnt be treated like that because the cases outcome could ruin someones life!

[Heretic]

Legally speaking, any substance that impairs judgement makes a person incapable of giving consent, so it technically is rape. However, if no charges are pressed, I feel nothing would become of it. In addition to being unable to provide true consent, she didn't even know that she was under the influence.

[Marguerite]

Being stoned from pot brownies would not make you lose conciousness. It's not like snorting coke or something.

This is definitely not rape and to me it sounds like she just regrets it.

[her_beautiful_mistake]

Not rape or anything close to it. Jesus I wouldn't even say he took advantage. Your friend is as much a victim because the girl is making him feel seriously shit about himself and what he did, when he did nothing wrong.

I hate girls sometimes.

If you're going to sleep around and then regret it, freaking keep your legs closed to start with! Calling rape is just inexcusable. You can ruin a guys life, and it makes people who really get raped less likely to be believed or speak up in the first place.

[SayWord]

Thank you all for your responses.

I relayed your inputs on the situation to the guy. He feels awful and wants to talk to her about it but they recently broke up so it's kind of difficult to have that serious of a conversation.

But again, thank you for your opinions on the topic.

[Marguerite]

Originally Posted by SayWord

Thank you all for your responses.

I relayed your inputs on the situation to the guy. He feels awful and wants to talk to her about it but they recently broke up so it's kind of difficult to have that serious of a conversation.

But again, thank you for your opinions on the topic.

Oh so he 'raped her' but then she got into a relationship with him? And let me guess, she started crying rape once the relationship broke down?

Wow this girl sounds like a bitch.

I feel sorry for the guy.

[SayWord]

Originally Posted by Marguerite

Oh so he 'raped her' but then she got into a relationship with him? And let me guess, she started crying rape once the relationship broke down?

Wow this girl sounds like a bitch.

I feel sorry for the guy.

No, they were in a relationship for a year. Then this incident happened..and a year later they discussed it as an incident that may have been "rape". The relationship was breaking down for other reasons....

[Guile]

Originally Posted by SayWord

I have a friend who has encountered a very odd situation. Partner A = Male Partner B = Female

Partner A has never been around the influence of drugs his entire life except one short occasion. He is essentially ignorant to how high one can be with the use of marijuana.

Partner B has recently eaten a couple small brownies mixed with marijuana. Partner A asks Partner B after awhile if they would like to have sex. Partner B accepts.

Partner A does not know how "high" Partner B is and they sex.

I'm wondering if this situation would be rape, or how can you define this situation? Partner A has no idea how high she was and did not know that she was so high that she unknowingly accepted sex.

In all honesty, I know both Partners really well. And Partner A would not knowingly commit the act of rape if he had known that she was "high". But I'm having a hard time trying to categorize this sort of situation.

What are your opinions? From what I looked up on the internet, there are situations where there is drug related rape incidents. But those only relate to incidents where one partner purposely drugs the other and knowingly knows that the other cannot resist...

Legally speaking ignorance of the law is no excuse to break the law, but that is irrelevant here. To commit a crime, on must be in what is called a "Criminal State of Mind", as in, they have the intent to commit a felonious action. He intended to have sex with her, not to have sex with her while she was easy/high. Because of that, he is not guilty of rape, but could be sued it Civil court for emotional damages.

That is the law in the United States, I am not sure about other countries.

[Emily.]

I just wanted to add that, while "partner A" may have in no way been trying to commit the act of rape, I can see how "partner B" may have felt she was. Legally she isn't able to give consent whilst under the influence (in the US) especially since "partner A" was in no way impaired by drugs. Just be there for your friends. You don't have to pick sides just listen and support them.


I'm going to go ahead and close this as there have been a lot of good posts giving opinions on both sides and I don't want this to turn into a debate. If the OP wants to add anything to this or have it reopened just let me know!