Triggering: is it true that rape is part fault of how we dress?

[olive98]

sometimes i heard guys at school say that if we wear really short skirts when going out places its our fault kind of if they rape or touch us. also i heard on tv some ppl say it it seems unfair and i don't know if its true./ i go nude camping with a nudist family and their friends and 8 of them are male and they compliment but do not rape us. what do you think, is it ok to wear teeny skirts? in summer i need to or its too hot like 40 degrees celcius.

[Gingerbread Latte]

Short answer : no.

Rape is never the victim's fault.

[olive98]

Originally Posted by Pizza Slut

Short answer : no.

Rape is never the victim's fault.

hi pizza thanks! i thought for a minute i had to buy lots of new clothes!

[Viper1996]

Its never the victims fault. Remember that!

[olive98]

Originally Posted by Viper1996

Its never the victims fault. Remember that!

i was a victim but i never told anyone cos at that time cos a boy told the school that i was a c***tease. school is so difficult sometimes

[Coffee.]

It is never the victim's fault. It doesn't matter how you dress, how you act, etc, if you didn't say yes, you did not consent.

I'd recommend reporting to your school or local police what happened, and especially seeing a counselor to talk about your own feelings.

[AtheistProud]

NO!!!!!!!! any GUY that acts it is, is just trying to find a reason to excuse it. I could walk about NUDE at school and that shouldnt mean its my fault to get raped

[Spicy_]

Hey everyone,

Just wanted to let yall know that we will be moving this thread to the Rape and Abuse section as we believe better suited answers may be received there!

[eckky]

IDK why people would say that its stupid if someone gets raped its not her/his fault no matter how they dress

[olive98]

Originally Posted by Coexist.

It is never the victim's fault. It doesn't matter how you dress, how you act, etc, if you didn't say yes, you did not consent.

I'd recommend reporting to your school or local police what happened, and especially seeing a counselor to talk about your own feelings.

thankyou
i'm not sure if its serious enough to tell. cos i ran away after he took my dress off/finger. i just feel bad cos i wore no bra/undies even though i only wanted to kiss. i don't know what i was thinking. but i got away in time kind of i guess. i'll try to talk to some1 but i feel rude when i try to say it out loud

[olive98]

Originally Posted by eckky

IDK why people would say that its stupid if someone gets raped its not her/his fault no matter how they dress

mum yells at me in summer a lot for not wearing enough

Originally Posted by Prof.Engrish

Hey everyone,

Just wanted to let yall know that we will be moving this thread to the Rape and Abuse section as we believe better suited answers may be received there!

thankyou

Originally Posted by AtheistProud

NO!!!!!!!! any GUY that acts it is, is just trying to find a reason to excuse it. I could walk about NUDE at school and that shouldnt mean its my fault to get raped

thats true! i feel safe at camp because others are nude anyway cos they are open-minded about me being nude too instead of 'she is nude so she wants it'.

[PureStorm]

The statement "It's never the victim's fault" is fundamentally flawed. It implies that there's absolutely nothing the potential victim could do to minimize the risk of becoming a victim. And even if at the end of the day the rapist is clearly at fault, it doesn't mean that it's not your responsibility to take simple precautions to reduce the risk of it to happen. In fact, I argue that telling the victim that he or she is never at fault is not very helpful when it comes to reducing the risk of the crime to happen.

There was some campaign of women saying "Don't tell me how to dress, tell them not to rape".
It is the equivalent of saying "Don't tell me to lock my door, tell them not to steal". - source (watch it, it explains it much better than my post!)
Or another example, is the child at fault for getting abducted? Certainly not, but does that mean it does not have the responsibility to not let a stranger lure it into some candy van (good old cliche )? No. It should be taught not to take candy or stuff from strangers, and not be lured by them! "Don't tell me how to teach my children, tell your children not to abduct!". What a moron attitude exactly like the rape example.

Pointing a finger at rape victims telling them it's their fault is stupid and I would never do that. I'm in no way apologizing rape and I stand on the side of victims; but that includes raising awareness of the need of education on how to prevent rape, for the potential victim's sake. This is not victim blaming, this is giving people advise on how to avoid becoming one. So yes, please, lend them an ear and listen to them when they want to teach you about it. I dislike very much how you are being told that it's never your responsibility and there's nothing you could have done to prevent it - that way you are not taught how to reduce the risks, and it enhances your risk of getting raped. That is my criticism towards such campaigns.

Again: if someone breaks into your house then you are clearly a victim, but does that mean you couldn't have done anything to prevent it, like locking your door? No. That's my answer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1T0Gc...r_embedded#t=0

Also, you need to take a look at the definition of rape: feminists redefined it - if they say "yes" and have consensual sex and regret it afterwards, it counts as rape (it's what the "Don't be THAT girl" campaign is against) and the lover can be arrested and his life ruined without further evidence (just look up google cases, thousands). To use this as an example, It'd not be smart if I didn't collect evidence that it wasn't rape beforehand, as a precaution in case I become a victim of false allegations. Textmessages, video- and sound recordings are the only way I can defend myself in court. This goes hand in hand with the thread's subject - it may not be directly my fault, but I can take precautions.
It's important to clarify that this thread is about the rape as in sex that never was consensual to begin with, but forced. That's what you meant, right?

Peace

[olive98]

Originally Posted by PureStorm

The statement "It's never the victim's fault" is fundamentally flawed. It implies that there's absolutely nothing the potential victim could do to minimize the risk of becoming a victim. And even if at the end of the day the rapist is clearly at fault, it doesn't mean that it's not your responsibility to take simple precautions to reduce the risk of it to happen. In fact, I argue that telling the victim that he or she is never at fault is not very helpful when it comes to reducing the risk of the crime to happen.

There was some campaign of women saying "Don't tell me how to dress, tell them not to rape".
It is the equivalent of saying "Don't tell me to lock my door, tell them not to steal". - source (watch it, it explains it much better than my post!)
Or another example, is the child at fault for getting abducted? Certainly not, but does that mean it does not have the responsibility to not let a stranger lure it into some candy van (good old cliche )? No. It should be taught not to take candy or stuff from strangers, and not be lured by them! "Don't tell me how to teach my children, tell your children not to abduct!". What a moron attitude exactly like the rape example.

Pointing a finger at rape victims telling them it's their fault is stupid and I would never do that. I'm in no way apologizing rape and I stand on the side of victims; but that includes raising awareness of the need of education on how to prevent rape, for the potential victim's sake. This is not victim blaming, this is giving people advise on how to avoid becoming one. So yes, please, lend them an ear and listen to them when they want to teach you about it. I dislike very much how you are being told that it's never your responsibility and there's nothing you could have done to prevent it - that way you are not taught how to reduce the risks, and it enhances your risk of getting raped. That is my criticism towards such campaigns.

Again: if someone breaks into your house then you are clearly a victim, but does that mean you couldn't have done anything to prevent it, like locking your door? No. That's my answer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1T0Gc...r_embedded#t=0

Also, you need to take a look at the definition of rape: feminists redefined it - if they say "yes" and have consensual sex and regret it afterwards, it counts as rape (it's what the "Don't be THAT girl" campaign is against) and the lover can be arrested and his life ruined without further evidence (just look up google cases, thousands). To use this as an example, It'd not be smart if I didn't collect evidence that it wasn't rape beforehand, as a precaution in case I become a victim of false allegations. Textmessages, video- and sound recordings are the only way I can defend myself in court. This goes hand in hand with the thread's subject - it may not be directly my fault, but I can take precautions.
It's important to clarify that this thread is about the rape as in sex that never was consensual to begin with, but forced. That's what you meant, right?

Peace

yep cos i've never asked or said yes to making love so for sure i think it would be forced if it happened. but a boy i was with thought i meant 'yes' cos i had no undies on so he fingered. and then i said 'but i didnt want to' and then he said 'you had no underwear and when i felt there you were all wet and breathing fast' and i said 'cos i enjoyed kissing+cuddling'. so its pretty confusing and one of my girl friends said that when we go wet it means we are ready to ride a boy and that its how biology works so we can have babies. but i go wet in bed when i lotion my nipples+legs but i was not wanting a baby

[hocus pocus]

We had a big discussion about this in group therapy. As everyone else has said, rape is never the victim's fault. With that being said, you should be able to wear whatever you want.

[in_recovery]

I agree with the poster that we could take actions to try and
prevent it from happening, but IT IS NEVER your FAULT!!!! NO means NO!!!!!

[coolkid98]

Hi there Olive, as others have said rape is never the victims fault. Its completely unfair that people say it is but whatever you wear it will never be your fault.

[Philomath]

Rape is never the victum's fault. You are not at fault for what happened to you and if you can, you should talk about this with someone and get help for the emotions that you have towards this. No one deserves to be raped and no one should rape another person.
It does not matter how much or how few clothes a woman is wearing, this should never occur.

[LoveHopeandFaith]

No matter what you wear, it is never the victims fault. Just because you look attractive, does not give anyone the right to hurt you or invade you personal space. It is your body to do whatever you want with.

[olive98]

Originally Posted by Enchantment

We had a big discussion about this in group therapy. As everyone else has said, rape is never the victim's fault. With that being said, you should be able to wear whatever you want.

in group therapy in the chatroom? i like the chatroom

Originally Posted by in_recovery

I agree with the poster that we could take actions to try and
prevent it from happening, but IT IS NEVER your FAULT!!!! NO means NO!!!!!

ok sounds good to me! thanks

[olive98]

Originally Posted by coolkid98

Hi there Olive, as others have said rape is never the victims fault. Its completely unfair that people say it is but whatever you wear it will never be your fault.

goood, cos we have hot weather here really hot in summer so its best not to wear too much.

Originally Posted by Kakorrhaphiophobia

Rape is never the victum's fault. You are not at fault for what happened to you and if you can, you should talk about this with someone and get help for the emotions that you have towards this. No one deserves to be raped and no one should rape another person.
It does not matter how much or how few clothes a woman is wearing, this should never occur.

i agree it seems strange how some guys think its ok to touch private things.

Originally Posted by LoveHopeandFaith

No matter what you wear, it is never the victims fault. Just because you look attractive, does not give anyone the right to hurt you or invade you personal space. It is your body to do whatever you want with.

thanks! guys are awesome if they respect our body

[hocus pocus]

This was in actual therapy for me with girls my age. But, there are facilitated discussions that you can join if you sign in at the right time and enter the chatroom

[olive98]

Originally Posted by Enchantment

This was in actual therapy for me with girls my age. But, there are facilitated discussions that you can join if you sign in at the right time and enter the chatroom

it feels nice to be honest when people care

Hey, Olive. First, rape is never the victim's fault remember that.

Those guys are into the whole justifying rape thing known as "rape culture"; they put the blame on victims rather than the assailant. It's wrong, and the way you dress does not define whether or not you're rapeable. Because we have the freedom of expressing ourselves through the way we dress.

However (I'm not sympathizing with rapists here) you have to know the line where decency and indecency meet. You don't want to dress so your butt cheeks are showing or your nipples can be seen. It's not up to me to say you have to wear underwear or bra, but use your judgement. But you still have the freedom to dress however you want!

[Debaser]

NO! "When a man is raped, you never hear about what he was wearing". This is so true and it highlights that fact that female rape is a feminist issues, in the way guys react to women and jump to conclusions and expectations.

[olive98]

Originally Posted by Skyways and Starlights

Hey, Olive. First, rape is never the victim's fault remember that.

Those guys are into the whole justifying rape thing known as "rape culture"; they put the blame on victims rather than the assailant. It's wrong, and the way you dress does not define whether or not you're rapeable. Because we have the freedom of expressing ourselves through the way we dress.

However (I'm not sympathizing with rapists here) you have to know the line where decency and indecency meet. You don't want to dress so your butt cheeks are showing or your nipples can be seen. It's not up to me to say you have to wear underwear or bra, but use your judgement. But you still have the freedom to dress however you want!

thanks yup i wear clothes when i leave home but not much in summer cos i prefer dresses which hold your breasts in place so need no bra and i wear no undies on some happy days or when my bf asks me to but i don't think anyone knows. my dress covers my cheeks for sure cos my dresses are pretty and not the other type hehe.

[olive98]

Originally Posted by Debaser

NO! "When a man is raped, you never hear about what he was wearing". This is so true and it highlights that fact that female rape is a feminist issues, in the way guys react to women and jump to conclusions and expectations.

i agree like some guys think hugging is always romantic but i hug all my friends even if its a guy friend

[PureStorm]

Originally Posted by Debaser

NO! "When a man is raped, you never hear about what he was wearing". This is so true and it highlights that fact that female rape is a feminist issues, in the way guys react to women and jump to conclusions and expectations.

When a man is raped, you don't hear about it at all because it gets swept under the table.
Otherwise you would know that the place most men get raped in is prison and that men are the overwhelming majority of rape victims due to regular prison rapes getting swept under the table.
And in prison you don't choose your clothes, so only the other factors count (body language and out-of-your-control factors). Yes, by this I am saying that men should take whatever precautions they can take to protect themselves: having a body language that does not indicate vulnerability and weakness makes it less likely for you to get raped in prison. This is bloody common sense, this ignorance here makes me shake my head in disbelief!

Just because you look attractive, does not give anyone the right to hurt you or invade you personal space. It is your body to do whatever you want with.

Just because you leave your windows open and doors unlocked at night does not give anyone the right to break into your house. It is your house to do whatever you want with.

Just because you go into the dark wilderness without proper protection does not mean you deserve to be assaulted by a person or eaten by a wild animal. It is your body to move whereever you want with it.

Just because you cross the zebra crossing without looking left and right does not mean it is your fault if you get run over. It is your right to cross the road without looking.

All these statements are true, but it happens and it is your responsibility to reduce the risks. Is it your fault if it happens? No. Is it your responsibility to reduce risks? Yes.
It is the same with burglary, assault, thievery, ...

Imagine all the banks and museums of the world saying
"Just because we have billions of Euros stored does not give anyone the right to steal them. Therefore we don't need security systems; they are expensive and thievery is not our fault, so why should we pay? It is our money and our bank/museum to do what we want with it. Don't tell us to install security systems, teach your kids not to steal!"

My face cannot take any more palm!

Olive,

[Edited] I want women and men to stay safe and that they can reduce the risk, but it can still happen even if the woman/man does everything he/she can and that's why the woman/man is not to blame in such situations. But some women/men still think "Stay Safe" = "You deserve to be raped" [Edited]
I just want to let you know that I want your best safety and that means informing you about precautions you can take. Unfortunately, [Edited] voices like mine are silenced so the chances of getting raped increase for women and men. But nobody will shame me into silence anymore. I was a victim too and saying that I am a victim blamer reeks of ignorance that borders on stupidity. I as a victim feel offended in the extreme by that, and hereby I make clear once again: THE VICTIM IS NOT AT FAULT!

And I want to clarify here. I said "The statement 'The victim is never at fault' is fundamentally flawed". [Edited] I hope you didn't misunderstand it. Cause I agree with it, BUT I think that it is flawed because an important part is missing.

"In the end, the victim is not at fault; however, precautions to reduce the risk of becoming a victim can and should be taken".

It is no rocket science that body language and clothes tell alot about a person, and can also indicate that you would make a vulnerable, weak and helpless victim.

I don't have the intention to take any freedom away from women or men when it comes to clothing or behavior. Do whatever you want. Don't wear a bike helmet because it's uncomfortable and furthermore don't look left and right when crossing the zebra crossing. But then the risks of injury increase - does that mean you are to blame if something out of your control happens? No!

Last time I linked this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1T0Gc...r_embedded#t=0

Needless to say, even though he emphasizes that even if all precautions are taken rape can still happen due to out of your control factors, he is being called a victim blamer and rape apologist. Like I said, it happens everywhere. Goal of that shaming tactic is to strip women off their responsibilities, and it is enforced on this forum as well.

His response to that here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACGV-fhZ-xs

Stay safe, Olive and everybody else!
And to be perfectly clear: it. is. not. your. fault. if. you. get. raped. [Edited] I'm pro-victim, not anti-victim. Being pro-victim includes helping potential victims to avoid becoming one. Men and women should not commit crimes, and men and women are responsible to protect themselves from perpetrators. Still, men and women who fall victim to crimes have my compassion and helping hand on their side.

It's not your fault! But please stay safe, for your own sake, consider how you can reduce the odds of becoming a victim.

[Blackwing]

Rapist should know the golden word (No)

[olive98]

thanks PureStorm you explained it well and i understand it 100% when you compared each doors/wilderness/zebra, its true that its best to be smart

good point Kol, its weird how rapists don't think permission is important

[Lelola]

PureStorm, great job on using the term feminist as a blanket term. Can you show me a link to the feminist definition? As far as I am aware, rape is defined by the law and not a diverse group of people.

As for the "Don't be that girl" campaign, I think their advertising method is crap.

Actually, sometimes it doesn't even matter what you wear. In the end, some people will rape you just because of the opportunity and not because of what you wear. Attraction is not really a factor in most cases although it can be easier to judge whether you may be dangerous when you have less clothes on.

[olive98]

lucky the nudists aren't rapists, my neighbour is a nudist and i went camping with 11 people incl 8 male. they have erections but would never force you + nobody would let violence happen

[Moon]

No. It's never the victims fault.
Just because you dress a certain way, doesn't mean you're asking to be raped. It means you like that style, and find it appealing.

But again, no, it's never the victims fault, in any way, shape, or form.